Which one is Better? Keep them Separate or Together??

[DjMichael]

Greetings Children of the Sub-Conscious.


My question is pertaining to styles of music played at a "Rave/Event/Party". Do you believe that it is better to put one genre of music in one specific room? Or to have each stage expose a multitude of styles and sounds?


I would like to hear what way you prefer and why.




My reason behind this is that ultimately we all speak of unification. It is the most beneficial way we can go about things, especially in a smaller scene like our own. Unity is also created through diversity, and Im sure we all posses that. Everyone has their own taste, even when it comes down to a certain genre. But with all of these different ways of thinking, shouldnt this diversity bring us together? Yet it dosnt, people seem to segregate themselves because of the music they prefer the most.
And then lines are drawn, where people can no longer just come together to have a good time and let go, unless they feel they are with the right crowd. So I ask you, is this the way it should be or is there another way to go about it?

Thanks for your response..

Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[king egorock]

i prefer specific rooms. it makes it easier if you don't have to fight human traffic to see the music you want to see. besides if you scatter the different acts amongst different stages it seems to cause confusion as opposed to unity. arizona is the only rave scene that i've ever seen that likes to do that.

imho though raves have been on the decline for years. something new needs to happen. somewhere people forgot about the progression aspect of electronic music.

[Castor]

I like the idea behind genre-themed rooms. I dont like the differnences in experiences between rooms. Sound systems vary from room to room. Being a DnB board most of the Dj's here are familiar with the "NILE BASEMENT", the single worst playing experience in this state!! The funny thing is, jungle is designed for the most proper sound systems, yet usually ends up being played on a set of decks attatched to a boombox. If there is a way to give each room the same sound and lights, I would be up for that.

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

This is the ONLY state where I have seen cross genre music played on the same stage. It is always best to keep one style of music on one stage or in one room. That way you keep a single vibe flowing in that room and can also decorate accordingly.

[DjMichael]

I do agree with what everyone is saying. We (DTS) even practice it most of the time. We separate the rooms according to style at many of our events. The thing is, I feel like we might be creating some kind of segregation issue. As if only Junglist can hang in this room and the Hardcore kids in another. I can see that everyone is attending the same event, but its like we are promoting a specific way of coming together. Should there always be rules like these? That is my question. Would it hurt to experiment and create a line up that encompasses many styles, but build it to progress through the night?? These of course are just suggestions and ideas Im throwing out there for discussion. I would like to hear everyones take on it, and perhaps gain some perspective on the situation.

Thanks.



Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[jadis]

seperate..it's nice to be able to walk in a different room and get some breakbeat or trance or what ever..kind of like a buffet :)

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

I for one want to throw a bottle when Im in a tight dnb vibe and some wanker starts playing happy hardcore next.... Makes me want to leave....

[sebastian]

i personally think mixing styles on one stage can be really good if it's done tastefully...

i used to play alot of raves here in phoenix and i can't say i've ever played at a party that had a decently worked out line up, it doesn't say much for the rave scene here..

sebastian

[DjMichael]

I've experienced that as a DJ myself. I've played multiple times after a D&B DJ and have cleared the room, only to have it fill up all over again. Im definately all about flow. Consistency definatley creates and sustains energy on the dancefloor.

The reason that I brought this up is that I feel a lot of us are fitting into molds. Just like when I was into Punk Rock, I dressed and acted a certain way. I found that to truly say "Fuck the System" I had to just be myself. Not another studded leather jacket clone. I dont like the idea of people who like this style are this and people who like that style are that. Its counter productive and does nothing but make us a divided rabble of electronic revelers.

I never say that something or someone is better than the other. I only state what I might prefer over something else. Everyone does this, and that is why we have respective crew/websites/events that cater to this thought. Its what we prefer and how we like it.

So how do we make it all come together??

Without creating lines in the sand?

Thanks for joining in on this discussion. I appreciate everyones input.


Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[king egorock]

Originally posted by DjMichael
I've experienced that as a DJ myself. I've played multiple times after a D&B DJ and have cleared the room, only to have it fill up all over again. Im definately all about flow. Consistency definatley creates and sustains energy on the dancefloor.

The reason that I brought this up is that I feel a lot of us are fitting into molds. Just like when I was into Punk Rock, I dressed and acted a certain way. I found that to truly say "Fuck the System" I had to just be myself. Not another studded leather jacket clone. I dont like the idea of people who like this style are this and people who like that style are that. Its counter productive and does nothing but make us a divided rabble of electronic revelers.

I never say that something or someone is better than the other. I only state what I might prefer over something else. Everyone does this, and that is why we have respective crew/websites/events that cater to this thought. Its what we prefer and how we like it.

So how do we make it all come together??

Without creating lines in the sand?

Thanks for joining in on this discussion. I appreciate everyones input.


Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

i think if i were to have a negetive attitude toward any electronic music it would prolly be because
a. im not to excited about hanging out with etards
b. glowsticks are just plain annoying
c. plur is a catch phrase and will never be a reality as long as commerce is involved
D. having been a dnb dj since '94 i have at least 6 years or more worth of memories that consist of negetivity toward dnb from enthusists of other electronic genres
e. raves are really a thing of the past...after 10 years it's time to come with something new
f. id prefer not to have to be herding around like cattle trying to locate the next act to graze on

these are only my personal opinions. they are probably in light of the fact that i am interested in finding a new horizon in terms of where electronic music is going. atm i don't see four beat music as being anythig but reactionary. breakbeats are where its at...for me at least. so even if i where to go to a rave i would prolly be hardpressed to participate in most of the stuff beyond breakstep, new school breaks, dnb, and idm.

also im going off a flyer dts left on my car "itchy and skratchy". absolutely nothing i was interested in seeing.
you had one dnb gut that i had never heard of. not that i am against no namers, but im more likely to go see them if you were let your no namer open for some one of whom i had heard.
this would be another arguement for genretizing rooms: so that the people w/o big names would start to develop a name by opening for a headliner of their genre...there by exposing them to a crowd that was into that particular genre.

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

I dont go to a hip hop show to see genisis..... There will always be sepperation cause the music is sepperate... Like I said before It would sour me if the sound changed... If I want to experience another sound then I walk over to the other stage or room.

It gives me personal choice and Im not force fed a sound that I cant stand.

[DjMichael]

The reason we didnt go for a D&B lineup is because we feel that most people who enjoy the music, dont enjoy what we are doing ourselves. You pretty much put my point in perspective, by saying all the things you hate. Such as people on drugs, waving glowsticks around, its just so early 90's. I get what you are saying. Most have or will join the jaded bus. Im not here to judge, perhaps because I dont want the judgement myself. I do what I want to do, so should everyone else. If that involves laying on the floor with a binky in your mouth, so be it. Its not my thing, but I can still have a good time regardless. Its all on how you make it.

I would like to incorporate D&B into our line ups. Although our crew does not specialize in this music, it dosnt mean I dont enjoy it. The thing is, like I stated before. Even if we did a full D&B lineup on this event, I really dont think we would pull that crowd because of what else is at the event.

Thats the meaning behind my discussion. We are a divided scene because of our preferences and lack of tolerance. But thats life and it gives you choices. The choice to go, the choice not to go.

Im all about providing a good time for people. I like to see everyone smiling and enjoying themselves. Dont you??

:)


Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[king egorock]

there is a difference between hate and dislike....i didn't express hate but rather an opinion for which you asked.
however if you wer to ask those who know me you would also find that i am a very musically diverse person, however limited funds cause me to choose very specifically what i will and won't attend.
if you are truely serious about opening your promotions to dnb, why not ask some one like jason ayers for advice. he seems to have a good history with dts and won't just tell you some bullshit.

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

Well I think groovetribe does the best at giving diversified talent a chance. They bring out a little bit of everything.

The raves Im used to back in Houston would get a major headliner from House or Trance and DnB and would pull 5 - 10 thousand easy.

But raves are dying man.... Plus no one wants to get stuck in the desert... I have a car that just cannot be driven off road.

[Preecha]

Basically until the promoters in the scene take a more active stance vs kids doing drugs in their parties and have a more effective way of dealing with this issue, people in the DNB scene will look down at raves. The reason why this act against raves is in the works from our government is because parents and future parents dont want that crap to be allowed. Thats my stance!

Kids will go to where they can get easy access to drugs. Make it harder to get them at raves :)

[DjMichael]

There is definately a difference between dislike and hate, sorry for mis-interpreting your stance. Just like you said though when you were playing back in 94' you had to put up with people dissing on your style. And it goes for all of us who choose to perhaps play a certain style of music. There are those who can groove to it, and those who cannot. And that is why as individuals or groups of people choose to push a certain style.

Like I said before, Im not the authority on Drum and Bass music or Djs. I can definately tell you I've heard people I like, but Im not sure if the "paying" crowd will go for it. And if people from the Drum and Bass community dislike going to "raves" then how do make them think differently??


As for drugs, they have always been around and always will be. Making laws that punish innocent (not saying all of them are) promoters for providing electronic music to the masses is just insane. Those laws are only targeting a group of people because of the culture and music they enjoy. I think most of us know the "War on Drugs" is futile and we need to start looking at other methods of prevention and education to really fix the problem.


Anyhoo.. Im glad we are able to discuss these situations. Like I said before Im definately just looking for other perspectives on these issues. I ultimately want to see electronic music gain its true admiration it deserves.

Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[Consumer]

Welcome to the board, Michael. You're one of the few people that had to endure my early attempts at making techno :)

Yes, drum and bass is dance music and its electronic, but its not part of the techno family tree anymore; its another planet alltogether. That's just one of reasons I feel it should be on its on stage and/or room of equal size to whatever the 'main' stage/room is.

And to the rave promoters who think that its a good idea to mix up the jungle room with breakbeat and hardcore: stop it. That assumed association is so tired. I'd rather share the stage with house, hip-hop and 2-step dj's (organic funk and basslines are important to junglists, not just a breakbeat).

One of the goals of sub:con is to eventually have rave promoters approach us to sponsor or run the drum n' bass rooms at their parties. Much like they use particular vendors for sound and lighting, we'd like them to think 'sub:con' when they wish to have a dnb/jungle room. Its a step towards quality control... making sure we don't get shafted with a sub-par soundsystem (and justifying that cost by ensuring the promoter we'd help get the people out in the first place).

I don't think we are quite there yet, as many people here still think sub:con is only about certain dj's or a certain flavor of dnb.

[Fractal]

i remember when there was only one room at a party... that was the shit, it lumped all musical styles and people together... thats where it should return. personally i think it would be great if the dj's would expand their sets to encompass a broader range of music - DRC for example will start a set with house, slide into a hip hop set and come banging with a jungle finale. thats dope. fuck all this rigid seperatist attitude... rooms and crates

[Preecha]

Gotta have seperate rooms. If a kid who likes jungle or whatever goes to a party for jungle and he has to listen to 2 or more djs playing other music first, he may just leave. I know many ppl like to hear one or 2 styles. Just about all big parties everywhere including London have seperate rooms cause ppl are very specific and picky. I wouldnt go hear hardcore then a breaks dj to finally hear a jungle dj. Just doesnt work imo. Trance/Jungle/House etc in seperate rooms. If ppl want to listen to other music they know where and when they can.

[Consumer]

Originally posted by Fractal
i remember when there was only one room at a party... that was the shit, it lumped all musical styles and people together... thats where it should return. personally i think it would be great if the dj's would expand their sets to encompass a broader range of music - DRC for example will start a set with house, slide into a hip hop set and come banging with a jungle finale. thats dope. fuck all this rigid seperatist attitude... rooms and crates

one room parties were great when the crowd was smaller, but there is enough support now for just a trance/hardhouse room and a jungle room at a party.

BTW, I booked DRC for my first rave in '99 - I know how well she mixes up genres to put my money on it. She tore it up and had a blast, and that was in the basement of the Nile... Dara was upstairs in the main room :slayer

[Consumer]

Here's how I had the line-up in the second room (basement) of that party:

9:00 - 10:00 Lego (breaks)
10:00 - 11:00 Pete Salaz (house)
11:00 - 12:00 Nimh (playing mainly speed garage)
12:00 - 1:00 Intertia (prog house->trance)
1:00 - 3:00 DRC (house->techno->goa->dnb)
3:00 - 4:30 Gary Menichiello (hard techno->minimal)
4:30 - 6:00 CL McSpadden (prog house)

At that time (March of '99), I considered that pretty much the best way to progress a line-up in one room. I felt it was important to show that a 'second room' could have top talent and even an out of town headliner.

[DnBbabexx]

I think different styles should be kept to different rooms... When going to an event, you see the flyer and usually see a couple names you really like above the rest who you don't want to miss. When there, you can find them and where they will be by the style of music they play. I personally would get pretty pissed if i missed who i went to see because i couldn't determine which room they were in.
Also, it is sort of cool to walk between different rooms with different styles. It's feels like you are walking in to a different world!
Plus i really HATE to seeing little 14 15 year old kids rolling or frying...It depresses me and makes me understand why politians want something i love in a pure, sober way to stop! And i don't usually have to see them in the Jungle/ DnB room.
All in all I think it should be kept seperate.....If you want to hear a different type of music walk to the room next door!

[shabda]

I think Jungle/Drum n Bass is deserving of its own movement.

[Wes]

Originally posted by DjMichael
Greetings Children of the Sub-Conscious.





Children????????????????

[DjMichael]

Everyone is Someone's Child.


:spliff







Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[Janus]

Threads such as this are effin Red Herrings...

the langauge in it suggests that there is a definate answer, namely what type of forum is "better"....

d00d, all I gotta say is... there's a time and a place for everything

sure, a stage w/ multiple styles can be the shyt at times...
other's, not so much...

Lesson??

Don't Dichotomize...

[Skwert]

Power Plur Force III

Miss Jag
Ariel
DFT
Emile
Castor
Rise


(random)

[Skwert]

oh, p.s. :

i like themed rooms, having all styles spread out creates a cluster fek of genre confusion and can sometimes kill a 'mood' in a room

(my opinion)

[DjMichael]

Zero,


Nowhere in this thread did I say that we have given support to full D&B lineups. We have incorporated them in before, but its not what we specialize in. Also, the comment you made about our crowds perhaps getting smaller. Its happening all over this state in every music scene!! The Drum and Bass community may be growing now but it still dosnt match the numbers of events going off 3 - 4 years ago. Dont think I have some hidden agenda here when posting this. Its only a discussion, meaning we are voicing our opinions. And I just wanted to hear everyone elses.


Read the first paragraph on the top. Like I said, we all speak about unification. How is that supposed to happen if people want to turn everything into a grudge match??


Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[Wes]

http://www.phillyjunglemassive.com/cru/djaa/gimp.gifPLUR GUYS!http://www.phillyjunglemassive.com/cru/djaa/gimp.gif



:kitty :cute :kitty

[Consumer]

I don't hold anything against Desert TRANCE Society for not promoting much dnb... just as I wouldn't expect anyone to think sub:con is going to be hosting a trance line-up anytime soon.

What I do see though is DTS working with sub:con to host a dnb room at a massive in the future.

[DjMichael]

Jason is getting the idea.


The only way to hold this thing together (Arizonas declining electronic music scene) is to come together.

Im just trying to open the door.



:)





Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[Preecha]

:love

[Zero]

What I do see though is DTS working with sub:con to host a dnb room at a massive in the future. [/B][/QUOTE]

How would that work?

[Consumer]

co-promote an event. Hopefully it wouldn't be done in the theme of some pop culture icon. :foff

[Zero]

So is DTS going to work with sub-con to host a dnb room at a massive, or is sub-con going to throw an event with DTS?

:wes

[DjMichael]

Who knows....



Its all up in the air right now. I think we are just thinking out loud. Im sure we'll be able to sit down and plan some stuff out for the future.




Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[Castor]

Originally posted by Skwert
Power Plur Force III

Miss Jag
Ariel
DFT
Emile
Castor
Rise


(random)


NILE BASEMENT:down

that night wasnt all bad though, vector burn dropped in for a few records and Squared was on the mic as well.

[DjMichael]

I remember Emile didnt show up that night either.....


What happened?


He was saying something about a vs. with Jen (Miss Jag) and he never showed up. hmmmmm...



Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[craig]

when i go out, i want to hear jungle. it's that simple. thats the reason i'm there. i definately dont want to stand around and listen to something i'm not interested in, waiting for some good music to be played.:down

[sweetaparatus]

I'm all for unity at a party. I do believe there should be some sort of segregation of the music genres per room. It would be nice to be able to go to a party and go to one room and listen to some good trance, go to another room and listen to some house, and go to another room and listen to some dnb. I love all of these music genres. I do see myself getting down more to dnb, that's why I'd like to be able to to a rave where all these musics are played.
In plus, I have friends that are into different types of music. Coming from El Paso, Tx, most of them favor house and trance over dnb. So I'd like to go to a party with them as well, even if we are in different rooms.
It's nice to see different types of people around, you gotta just let people do their own thing and not be so judgemental of it. It's their life, we're all here to live our own lives. There will always be different people around, we just have to accept it. Change is inevitable, and it's not always that bad. :metal


http://www.602.org/plur2k/pics/misc/vicki1.jpg

[DjMichael]

Hi Vicki :spliff

We seem to keep running into each other on different message boards. Good to see you join in on this discussion. Perhaps I'll see you out and about sometime. Take care.


:slayer




Kind Regards
Michael - DTS