War with Iraq...no thanks.

[Anglo]

NO WAR!!! NO SIDES!!!

This is the concept I have decided to push via travel through performances. Upon attending any Avenue of the Arts performance there will be petitions on hand to use as a voice of the community for speaking out against a pointless pursuit of war. BUSH VS. SADDAM is a conflict of ego. This mixed with old ideology and blood thirsty stubbornness is leading our nations young to slaughter. Basically if there has to be bloodshed...then let BUSH, SADDAM and whoever else bleed. There is NO "good guy"...none of us should have to fight anyone else's battles. I'll be damned if BUSH will show up to help @#%$ up the @#%$ down the street when I have beef. So I'm not dumping rounds in some poor schmuck in Iraq.

MY SOLUTION!!!

We (The obviously more civilized and evolved individuals) on both "sides" need to shun all Militant actions and factions, concepts and creations of destruction and give the MIDDLE FINGER to the older less wiser leaders of our countries. In conclusion...If we (The obviously more civilized and evolved individuals) say NO I WILL NOT KILL...watch how fast their conflicts stop.

MOTIVATE-ACTIVATE-CONGREGATE-TO STOP THE HATE
sign these petitions...take control of your fate...

Respect due,
-Anglo
www.WholeSumCrew.com

[Mantis Claw]

WORD :up

[Pureform]

getting nuked by iraq because we are pussies.....no thanks.
:foff

[Mantis Claw]

You have to have nukes before you can nuke someone. What's up with the childish :foff. It is interesting how the people who want to go to war (not that you would be fighting anyway) are the ones getting agro.

[Mantis Claw]

Going to war because we are ignorant sheeple..... no thanks.

[<RAW>]

QUESTIONS THAT WON'T BE ASKED ABOUT IRAQ

Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned there are some questions that won?t be asked- and maybe will not even be allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by those who are urging us to start this war.

1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?

2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we know it cannot retaliate- which just confirms that there is no real threat?

3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we cannot be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?

4. Is it not true that the UN?s International Atomic Energy Agency was able to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with Iraqi cooperation?

5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the attacks on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?

6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when he recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq?s links to terrorism?

7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took place?

8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?

9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called allies?

10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts, alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it chooses"?

11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away from tracking down those who did attack the United States- and who may again attack the United States- and using them to invade countries that have not attacked the United States?

12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst suspicions about the US, and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?

13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air force, and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then proved totally inept at defending the country?

14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go to war?

15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely controlled by Iran not Iraq?

16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and that thousands may have died?

17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United States?

18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?

19. Iraq?s alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions have been ignored by various countries without penalty?

20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?

21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the United Nations?

22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?

23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected president?

24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S. knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992- including after the alleged Iraqi gas attack on a Kurdish village?

25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein?s rise to power by supporting and encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?

26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?

27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?

28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that they won?t have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war than our generals?

29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?

30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any reason other than self-defense?

31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?

32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely disagreements will be settled by war?

33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war and- not coincidentally- we have not since then had a clear-cut victory?

34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?

35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war resolution to the floor of Congress?


ask and you will be ignored.........DO NOT HIDE FROM THE TRUTH!

[Pureform]

Originally posted by Mantis Claw
What's up with the childish :foff.
:foff <------the guy is smiling....no disrespect intended.:D

[jlines]

:eek how'd this thread sneak out of the trashcan?

[craig]

here we go again
:snore :snore :snore :snore :snore :snore :snore

fact is, we're going to war with iraq. plain and simple.

[Anglo]

I'm sure you don't want to go to war either...so I'm not frustrated by that lack luster response....I don't think sitting on the couch eating doritos and waiting to see the war on pay-per-view is a novel concept. I'd much rather and will do something. Anything. Plain and simple in the end I will be able to say I tried till I died.

Respect due,
-Anglo

[Pureform]

Originally posted by Anglo
I'm sure you don't want to go to war either...so I'm not frustrated by that lack luster response....I don't think sitting on the couch eating doritos and waiting to see the war on pay-per-view is a novel concept. I'd much rather and will do something. Anything. Plain and simple in the end I will be able to say I tried till I died.

Respect due,
-Anglo

:lighter respect:lighter

[viXen]

CAn we please fucking end this already?

[cpud]

Originally posted by Anglo
NO WAR!!! NO SIDES!!!

This is the concept I have decided to push via travel through performances. Upon attending any Avenue of the Arts performance there will be petitions on hand to use as a voice of the community for speaking out against a pointless pursuit of war. BUSH VS. SADDAM is a conflict of ego. This mixed with old ideology and blood thirsty stubbornness is leading our nations young to slaughter. Basically if there has to be bloodshed...then let BUSH, SADDAM and whoever else bleed. There is NO "good guy"...none of us should have to fight anyone else's battles. I'll be damned if BUSH will show up to help @#%$ up the @#%$ down the street when I have beef. So I'm not dumping rounds in some poor schmuck in Iraq.

MY SOLUTION!!!

We (The obviously more civilized and evolved individuals) on both "sides" need to shun all Militant actions and factions, concepts and creations of destruction and give the MIDDLE FINGER to the older less wiser leaders of our countries. In conclusion...If we (The obviously more civilized and evolved individuals) say NO I WILL NOT KILL...watch how fast their conflicts stop.

MOTIVATE-ACTIVATE-CONGREGATE-TO STOP THE HATE
sign these petitions...take control of your fate...

Respect due,
-Anglo
www.WholeSumCrew.com

I dont't want to be nuked first. I say we go in and remove him now. Certain people need to drop their conspiracy theory BS and realize that the only reason we havn't had SCUD's shot up our asses is because they can't make it over here.

Also, he's fired those things at Israel, one of our allies. He exterminates his own people, and has even put a hit out on his own CHILD. He is obviously CRAZY and hence SHOULD NOT be in control of his own nation.

That is all.

[cpud]

Originally posted by &lt;RAW&gt;
QUESTIONS THAT WON'T BE ASKED ABOUT IRAQ

Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned there are some questions that won?t be asked- and maybe will not even be allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by those who are urging us to start this war.

1. Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?

2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we know it cannot retaliate- which just confirms that there is no real threat?

3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we cannot be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?

4. Is it not true that the UN?s International Atomic Energy Agency was able to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with Iraqi cooperation?

5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the attacks on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?

6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when he recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq?s links to terrorism?

7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took place?

8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?

9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called allies?

10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts, alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it chooses"?

11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away from tracking down those who did attack the United States- and who may again attack the United States- and using them to invade countries that have not attacked the United States?

12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst suspicions about the US, and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?

13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air force, and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then proved totally inept at defending the country?

14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go to war?

15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely controlled by Iran not Iraq?

16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and that thousands may have died?

17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United States?

18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a 100 billion dollar war against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?

19. Iraq?s alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions have been ignored by various countries without penalty?

20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?

21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the United Nations?

22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?

23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military tyrants like Musharaf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected president?

24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S. knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992- including after the alleged Iraqi gas attack on a Kurdish village?

25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein?s rise to power by supporting and encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?

26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?

27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?

28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that they won?t have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war than our generals?

29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?

30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any reason other than self-defense?

31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?

32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely disagreements will be settled by war?

33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war and- not coincidentally- we have not since then had a clear-cut victory?

34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?

35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war resolution to the floor of Congress?


ask and you will be ignored.........DO NOT HIDE FROM THE TRUTH!

what website/message board did you bite this from?

[Mantis Claw]

Right, becuase he got it from a website and didn't write it himself completely invalidates it. Strong argument your making there.:slayer

[<RAW>]

Glad you asked this question, glad to know that you have an interest on seeing what other individuals think and strongly feel......REPUBLICAN congressman of Texas Ron Paul.......dont be surprised....... the simplest shit ain't plain to see.....especially for closed minded, brainwashed, fake patriotic individuals who think that this is all a big fucking joke....which in fact it really is for those that know what is really going down.


WAKE THE FUCK UP !!! and watch this revolution unfold......


http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/welcome2002.htm

[shabda]

Originally posted by &lt;RAW&gt;
QUESTIONS THAT WON'T BE ASKED ABOUT IRAQ


14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go to war?


where the fuck have you been? George bush Sr. looked to the UN not Congress to start the first war in the middle east. As a matter of fact he used the term "NEW WORLD ORDER," and if you dont believe me listen to that one Ministry song... Cause they sampled it!!! Its sad but true we are all fucking ROBOTS.

[cpud]

Originally posted by Mantis Claw
Right, becuase he got it from a website and didn't write it himself completely invalidates it. Strong argument your making there.:slayer

it was a simple question. i wanted to know his source thats all. im interested even if i dont agree :D

[Random_J.A.R.gun]

I defiantly refuse to choose sides - I ain't for it - nor can I stand against it from happening... so regardless of how anybody feels - I'm not proud to state how unrealistic the idealism of peace is!!! NOBODY is safe!!! True LOVE & RESPECT has become the disease that many are becoming immune to... so if you really care about anything in your life - these times are going to show how much you really give a damn!!! NO PEACE!!!:daeth

[Mantis Claw]

Originally posted by cpud


what website/message board did you bite this from?

Maybe you can see how this can be taken the wrong way. :D

[nikalodeeun]

Originally posted by &lt;RAW&gt;
Glad you asked this question, glad to know that you have an interest on seeing what other individuals think and strongly feel......REPUBLICAN congressman of Texas Ron Paul.......dont be surprised....... the simplest shit ain't plain to see.....especially for closed minded, brainwashed, fake patriotic individuals who think that this is all a big fucking joke....which in fact it really is for those that know what is really going down.


WAKE THE FUCK UP !!! and watch this revolution unfold......


http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/welcome2002.htm

ron paul = RINO - republican only in name

[DnBbabexx]

To those of you who think there is no chance of peace, your right! With attitudes like that there is not. Peace will take everyone. War will not solve problems 'cuz even if we do win ( which is unlikely due to the fact as said before there hasn't been clear victory since WW2) there will be another country the polititions and presidents want to get there hands on after. All in all I don't want to see someone I know and love die , Do you?

[Anglo]

http://wholesumcrew.com/macaota.jpg

[Vinyl_Vengeance]

I might just add my two cents....

War is the wrong way to handle things in Iraq. A war in Iraq will split the whole middle east in two, Anti-Western radicals and Western sympathizers. Who do you think are gonna be the ones taking up guns and suicide bombing themselves for their cause? Right now none of the countries that helped us in the gulf war want to take our side and provide support for this war. They understand this will happen and do not want to destabilize their own countries on account of Bush wanting oil control in the middle east. Saddam's neighbors dont like him, but they ealize that he is not an actual threat right now. He does not have the economy or the resources to wage war. They too see an obvious connection to Bush's bandwagon patriotism support and his desire to control the oil in the middle east.
Besides, once we take out Saddam, whats left? His son? He is ten times worse then Saddam. A puppet regime? That wont work for very long. Look at the wonderful gevernment we set up in Afghanistan. The only reason they are still alive is because they are guarded 24/7 by our soldiers.
You know the people in the Middle East would not hate us so much if we werent so goddam involved over there. Leave them alone and they will leave us alone. Anyway i better stop preaching now.

And a big salute to our supreme chancellor Bush...."SEIG HEIL, SEIG HEIL":rinse :bounce :reload :king