border patrol AZ militia [Archive] - Drumcore Message Board

Calbha

11-20-2002, 03:07 AM

nikalodeeun i think you need to rethink your postion on this. i lived in a forieghn country for 10 months and though i did not become extremly fluent in the language the people were more than generous in helping me. statements like yours are not willing to help others but rather shun them away. its impossible to learn everything about a country and a culture before you live there. i guess you just have to experience it for yourself inorder to understand. by the way did any of our forfathers happen to learn the languages and ways of the native american indian before they came here? hell no they came here and took what they liked so, with that im saying only in my opinion and not trying to start drama i dont understand your view. our country is based on immigration and a land of oppertunity and by turning away people that want that oppertunity i belive your turning away what this country was built upon. im not saying it is right for just anybody to come into our country and live off our taxes but i am saying there is probably a better solution other than just shipping them out. thats denying them oppertunity in my opinion.

P.S.UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT TRYING TO START A FIGHT IT IS STRICTLY MY VIEW I DONT WANT ANY DRAMA TO COME OF THIS I JUST WANT A PLEASANT DEBATE! NO MUDSLINGING FOR GODSAKES

IonSant

11-20-2002, 03:12 AM

Figure if more people spoke spanish there be a world of
advantage, half the world speaks it! is only growing bigger and stronger.

In switzerland there are 3 official languages (swiss, french and italian) they have welcomed culture into their society and communication is at a higher level.

Don't forget that immigrants pay taxes too and most will never be allowed to claim their IRS and SSS, this gives the employers a chance to generate more revenue on the unclaimed funs.:D

Have you ever traveled?

nikalodeeun

11-20-2002, 03:31 AM

(its kinda sad, that we have to say we dont mean shit personally when we post on this board now. it's as if everyone is automatically gonna take everything someone says up their ass)

the major reason they want to control the borders and tighten them so much is obvious enough. powell wants to let more muslims into the country...why? they've already got enough easy access coming in not only through the inept US airport security but through canada and mexico as well. if anyone happened to see the visa applications for the 9-11 highjackers, you can understand how lax this country has gotten on our borders. it is a threat to me and my family and my country when i know that in fact, someone could easily smuggle a weapon of mass distruction into my state and set it off. doesn't that scare you? i have absolutely nothing against muslims or arabs, i actually haven't met one that i don't like in my entire life. but i understand the danger that a small group of them put my loved ones in.
i've lived in america half my life. i am an american. people who come to this country hating it and using it are not american. they don't deserve to live here. those who are willing to devote themselves to being citizens of this country should definitely be given the chance. thats what this country was built upon. maybe i was a bit harsh when i said ALL illegals. but you have to understand: the ones who are here illegally, don't necessarily give two shits about this country and that worries me.

nikalodeeun

11-20-2002, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by IonSant
Figure if more people spoke spanish there be a world of
advantage, half the world speaks it! is only growing bigger and stronger.

well i think the same thing about chinese, japanese, and russian, hebrew and arabic. be reasonable. you can't say one language is advantageous to learn than another.

In switzerland there are 3 official languages (swiss, french and italian) they have welcomed culture into their society and communication is at a higher level.

Have you ever traveled?

switzerland is also one of the most socialistic countries in europe. i wasnt born in scottsdale ionsant. i have traveled plenty, to many different countries, nothing compares or even comes close to america. i dont want to live in socialism or communism, i've been there done that. i like my freedom of choice. i like the fact that my government trusts me with a weapon, and trusts me to choose my representatives. i'm so lucky i don't live in poverty or anarchy. i know this country isnt perfect, but it's the closest thing to it, and i am more than happy to be here.

IonSant

11-20-2002, 03:42 AM

what do you mean by Socialistic? the word freedom
seem shady--once you been somewhere else, I don't
hate america, but America can learn lots of things from
other places. Where have you been too, just curious?

Smooth Operator

11-20-2002, 03:44 AM

http://www.pocho.com/features/TDWK/tdwk_gobacktomexico.jpg

nikalodeeun

11-20-2002, 03:51 AM

i was born in ukraine, traveled to russia, georgia, lithuania, israel, jordan, and traveled all over the US. i've lived in the "ghetto" in america, and it is still a thousand times better than the apartment i lived in in the ukraine.

as for the socialistic comment, i'm too tired, and that would take me well into the night, so i will get back to you tomorrow.

p.s. i like this discussion. keep it goin.

MissNatalie

11-20-2002, 04:02 AM

:bandit
I'd better give my Tio Juan a heads up before he comes down to see me this christmas.....

DJ Seen

11-20-2002, 04:28 AM

http://www.dgreetings.com/newimages/racial/racial-discrimination-d3.gif

:(

paulfear

11-20-2002, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by IonSant
Figure if more people spoke spanish there be a world of
advantage, half the world speaks it! is only growing bigger and stronger.

I don't think half the world speaks Spanish, a lot do, but not half. I think Arabic and Chinese (not sure if they are divided Canton and Mandarin into separate languages or if they are considered dialects) are more widely spoken than Spanish.

In switzerland there are 3 official languages (swiss, french and italian) they have welcomed culture into their society and communication is at a higher level.

Actually, there is no Swiss language. Despite what they try to tell you it's really German. They just speak it faster. There is also a 4th language spoken in Switzerland, I’m not sure if it is considered a national language or not, but it’s called "Rhaetto Romansch". From language maps I’ve seen, it looks like it is spoken in the eastern part of Switzerland, between the German and Italian language borders.

Don't forget that immigrants pay taxes too and most will never be allowed to claim their IRS and SSS, this gives the employers a chance to generate more revenue on the unclaimed funs.:D Have you ever traveled?

Most illegal immigrants here are stuck doing jobs that pay "under the table", so they don't pay taxes. But also, they are really shitty jobs to have. Unless you mean they pay sales tax when they buy something at a store. And businesses don't pay tax on these illegal employees because they list them as "contract labor" which means the employee is really a contractor, and therefore responsible for paying his own taxes and social security; therefore, the business can say "we thought he was okay, it's not our fault he didn't pay his taxes."

I would like to see "illegal" immigrants stopped from coming into the USA personally, but I think there are different levels of illegal immigrants, and you really can't lump them all into 1 group. you have ones who come to earn money to send home to their family in the old country, you have ones who come to mooch off the system, you have ones who come to live the American dream, and you have ones who come to destroy America, just to name a few.

But don't get me wrong, I’m not some yahoo who believes all non-Americans should be tossed out on their ass. At one point my family was immigrants as well. But I will say I like the influx of different cultures immigrants bring. Really turns it all into a melting pot. Maybe I appreciate this more because I live in a very culturally devoid and undiverse area, but then again that maybe a completely different topic of discussion.

Mantis Claw

11-20-2002, 10:50 AM

I don't think we will do this topic any justice if we don't consider the larger picture and the system that is at work. We consider it wrong for outsiders to come into our country and benifit from us. But what about this country's corprate pirates that go into foriegn nations to rape and pillage their economies and people. Just look across the border if you are in El Paso and see the effects of this system. Our system worships only one thing, THE ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR. What ever it takes for the dollar to be made will be done, at any and all levels of the system. We are in no position to think we are rightous in our views of keeping out those that are being fucked by a system that allows us our privilages.

IonSant

11-20-2002, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by paulfear
I don't think half the world speaks Spanish, a lot do, but not half. I think Arabic and Chinese (not sure if they are divided Canton and Mandarin into separate languages or if they are considered dialects) are more widely spoken than Spanish.
It was not so much a geographical term, some Caribbean, Central and South America(except Brazil) and spain that is a lot of territory. Imagine traveling to those regions and knowing the language..doooo what an advantage.

Actually, there is no Swiss language. Despite what they try to tell you it's really German. They just speak it faster. There is also a 4th language spoken in Switzerland, I’m not sure if it is considered a national language or not, but it’s called "Rhaetto Romansch". From language maps I’ve seen, it looks like it is spoken in the eastern part of Switzerland, between the German and Italian language borders. [/B]
Yes is German and is not just spoken faster, is a dialect, which is divided in about 20 other dialects in Switzerland, the Swiss never call it German though. The fourt language is Romansch and is a Latin dialect and spoken by few, perhaps 1% it is also not an official printed language, which is to what I was referring to.
KRESSE:D

Most illegal immigrants here are stuck doing jobs that pay "under the table", so they don't pay taxes. But also, they are really shitty jobs to have. [/B]

That is what I meant, the taxes they are supposed to pay are keep by the employer there for the immigrants tax fun are rolled back into the employer ena-bling (notoice the bling!) him or her to generate more funs, is not the immigrants fault-but now with tax ID numbers I am please to imformed you that immigrants can now pay their taxes. WEEE!:D I also hate immigrants who come here to FUCK it up, If you aint here to improve get the fuck back and let the other s do.
Thanks for the feedback Paulfear.

rice

11-20-2002, 10:54 AM

in my own opinion i think this country is pretty sad. i was sponsored here from thailand in 82 and once i find the funds to go back i'll be on the next plane. but as i thought about becoming a citizen i have so many doubts. it seems that it takes buildings falling to show any pride in this country and even then it was only t shirts and bumper stickers. a culture of hamburgers and frenchfries. watch the boarders why? in fear of someone that works harder can take your job. i think it comes down to this. america worries to much and if they are scared about something happening they should stay out of every country and worry about themselves. because there are more than enough problems here.

non-citizens rule! :slayer

Mr.Nelson Noriega

11-20-2002, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by nikalodeeun
people who come over here ILLEGALLY are quite different than the people who take the time to become CITIZENS. it's not as easy as it sounds. i'm not trying to say that people don't have a right to be here, i'm saying all ILLEGAL immigrants should be sent back to their countries.
i pay for their children to have health insurance, but i don't have any of my own??? how do you explain that? you don't even have to speak english to live here anymore, everything is already written in fucking spanish for you. how come they don't have stuff written in russian, or hindi, or chinese, or korean? i can't wait till they have stop signs written in spanish.
in any case, i know why i came to this country. and it definietly wasn't so i could support a bunch of lazy bums while i worked my ass off. who the fuck you callin lazy bums ,you dumb motherfucker, do you know how hard it is for our people to leave there home and come to this country,do you know how it hits a persons pride when they have to stand on corners at 3-4am to get work that's heart something I bet not even your momma had,while your sittin here on your computer livin a good life there's people DYING TO GET TO THIS COUNTRY THATS HEART MOTHAFUCKER,about the millitint groups you think thats GREAT,these mothafuckers have been killing my people for years,you think thats great ,killin people when all they were just trying to do is creat a better life,you think property is worth more than peoples lives?if you do you must be a person that lives a pathetic and distorted life.what are you thinking, When your grandparents came here they got of the the boat and turned around and said get of my land,by the way you write it seems so.by the way this was once our land.your arguement would be taken alot better if you didn't sound like some trailertrash david duke.your comments are whack your whack,immigration gives culture,90% of everything around you is migrant based food,music,art. Your a fuckin caveman go back to your hole were the people with your thoughts can hang and talk about how great it was when it was a trailer trash country,don't get me wrong theres migrants who come here and do nothing for this country,but most migrants just come for work,doing grimy thankless jobs that most "americans"would dismiss in a quick second.Immagrints built "your america",and paying for "our" healthcare, whites make for 77%of the population in Az do you think all your money goes to our 15%,please!have you ever left Az,cause if you have you would see theres many places in this country that have areas that do have Russian,Chinese,and korean written stop signs.My family came here illegally many years ago,now we have what is called "THE AMERICAN DREAM"you probably wouldn't say shit if these immagrints where from a euro country,I'm not racist alot of my dogs are white,but to have an angry mentality toward people who probably never done anything to you indirect is pathetic,stop whinning!you punkass!

Preecha

11-20-2002, 11:15 AM

Im moving soon ;)

rice

11-20-2002, 11:19 AM

well done neLson :laughing

IonSant

11-20-2002, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by nikalodeeun

well i think the same thing about chinese, japanese, and russian, hebrew and arabic. be reasonable. you can't say one language is advantageous to learn than another.

I agree any learned language is an advantage but if I remember you made a statement saying that:
"can't wait till they have stop signs written in spanish."
which is not to encouraging in the cultural sense and here
being so close to Latin America spanish is a bigger advantage than any other language.

switzerland is also one of the most socialistic countries in europe.

?????????

i dont want to live in socialism or communism, i've been there done that. i like my freedom of choice. i like the fact that my government trusts me with a weapon

Doo, in a democratic society Nutrition and Health care are
not given rights, Socialist countries are not perfect I know, but for example CUBA has the best health care in the world for the poor,
which means that you can be out of the rukus and still have the right to medical attention and food.

I think some people are not to be trusted with a weapon, such
as John Allen Muhammad, Columbine, U of A, ect...shit fuk that
and to have a militia targeting Immigrants is just damn FUCKEN cowarly.

rice

11-20-2002, 12:17 PM

on a happier note, tool rocked last night! :metal

NextLevel

11-20-2002, 12:33 PM

OMG!! NIKKI WE AGREE!!!!!!!!!!:D

Look... America is founded on immigrants. Thats what makes it great. All of our ancestors came from other countries and made lives here. They came here and struggled for a few generations but now some have high positions and are extremely influential. To teach spanish and cater to spanish speaking people so they dont have to learn english is the worst thing we could do to them. If these people come here to reap the benefits of the country then they should learn english and abide by our laws and standards like all of our ancestors did. Moreover if they only speak spanish then they can only read what we decide to translate. Yes they may be able to eat and survive and get certain services inspanish but think of all the opportunities they miss. If they cant speak english then they dont have rights and will never rise above cutting our palm trees or holding our signs and picking our produce. For future generations of Mexicans to prosper and hold higher positions they need to speak english! Look... you wouldnt go to Madagascar without speaking the language and expect to have all the opportunities and have them cater to you.

By all means lets help them learn english...but it shouldnt be a choice otherwise we are just keeping them as slaves!!!

rice

11-20-2002, 12:41 PM

its sad to see how simple minded people can be. to be so proud of something so wrong. i actually know alot of AMERICANS that are dumber than shit and know english. and now they live on mill ave asking for money. :D

Pureform

11-20-2002, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by nikalodeeun
[B but you have to understand: the ones who are here illegally, don't necessarily give two shits about this country and that worries me. [/B]

yeah no shit...they rape our women and rob our houses. I do feel bad for the small number of immigrants that come here for the right reasons though. Their dreams and image is being throw down the shitter by the"bad seeds" that come over here.

Pureform

11-20-2002, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by NextLevel
OMG!! NIKKI WE AGREE!!!!!!!!!!:D

Look... America is founded on immigrants. Thats what makes it great. All of our ancestors came from other countries and made lives here. They came here and struggled for a few generations but now some have high positions and are extremely influential. To teach spanish and cater to spanish speaking people so they dont have to learn english is the worst thing we could do to them. If these people come here to reap the benefits of the country then they should learn english and abide by our laws and standards like all of our ancestors did. Moreover if they only speak spanish then they can only read what we decide to translate. Yes they may be able to eat and survive and get certain services inspanish but think of all the opportunities they miss. If they cant speak english then they dont have rights and will never rise above cutting our palm trees or holding our signs and picking our produce. For future generations of Mexicans to prosper and hold higher positions they need to speak english! Look... you wouldnt go to Madagascar without speaking the language and expect to have all the opportunities and have them cater to you.

By all means lets help them learn english...but it shouldnt be a choice otherwise we are just keeping them as slaves!!!

Damn someone on this board with fuckin brain.:up I think English is a must in this country to succeed. We want to teach bilingual education in our schools? fuck that! its moronic. It creates a huge language barrier between people in this so called melting pot country. It will be a melting pot when everyone can agree on what fucking language to speak here. There are kids born in this country that will grow up to trim trees, mow grass, wash dishes, etc, because they were never taught english in school. So they are forced to socialize with other non-english-speaking citizens for the rest of their lives.

Niki- i have so much respect for what you have gone through to make it in this country. You came here legit, learned the language, and became a productive member of our society. Russian and English are 2 completely different languages. Its not that hard to learn english if you already speak spanish...theyre both latin based!!!! So even more respect for that niki!

Theres a guy i work with who moved here from italy 4 years ago and speaks perfect english already....it sucks for him that he has to learn spanish now to communicate with the cooks at my work....immigrants that have been in america longer than him and still cant speak english. Fuck language barriers!!!!:raging

Mr.Nelson Noriega

11-20-2002, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Pureform

yeah no shit...they rape our women and rob our houses. I do feel bad for the small number of immigrants that come here for the right reasons though. Their dreams and image is being throw down the shitter by the"bad seeds" that come over here. rape your women break in your homes,fuck you most crimes are commited by americans on americans don't come at us like that you fuckin monkey

IonSant

11-20-2002, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by NextLevel
Moreover if they only speak spanish then they can only read what we decide to translate. Yes they may be able to eat and survive and get certain services inspanish but think of all the opportunities they miss.

AGREE 100% :D

Originally posted by Pureform
Damn someone on this board with fuckin brain.:up I think English is a must in this country to succeed. We want to teach bilingual education in our schools? fuck that! its moronic. It creates a huge language barrier between people in this so called melting pot country. It will be a melting pot when everyone can agree on what fucking language to speak here. There are kids born in this country that will grow up to trim trees, mow grass, wash dishes, etc, because they were never taught english in school.

And that one with the brain is not you..sorry :D
Cource you need english to succeed, duh.:crackhead
If you have ever landed in a new airport and realized how hard it is not to speak the language maybe you would think, "shit
I should haved taken them free language classes!!!"
Do you know what a Bi-lingual education is? doo cause
it does not mean you will not learn english, get out sometime, it seem like you know life from a glass window.
where is the language barrier? I stumbled into NIkki on line
to practice my Russian and I am working on my Swiss-German with friends in europe...if is too hard for you to learnd another language--dont hate. I have this GREAT ABC book in spanish that you can borrow.

THAT RAPE COMMENT WAS REALLY IGNORANT----

IonSant

11-20-2002, 03:02 PM

I am not sure if you smoke wee, but by the big plant on your signature I assume you do.

Just to let you know you are the one contributing to immigration
problems here in America with being a budd smoker--thousand of
central and south Americans cross the borders to supply you.

Now if you grow it then is all good...:up

Pureform

11-20-2002, 04:04 PM

My comments really pinched a nerve in you guys.:rolleyes
sorry. please be kind enough to forgive.:D

Pureform

11-20-2002, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by IonSant
I am not sure if you smoke wee, but by the big plant on your signature I assume you do.

Just to let you know you are the one contributing to immigration
problems here in America with being a budd smoker--thousand of
central and south Americans cross the borders to supply you.

Now if you grow it then is all good...:up

:laughing

yeah i do:bounce

I dont smoke the shwag though. Just da kindbudzzzz!

<RAW>

11-20-2002, 06:07 PM

i think it's about time. kick ass!:slayer this is the 2nd amendment being used at its BEST!

Congratulations! you've just become a proud, heartless patriotic, oppresive young "american." Go pass out some apple pie out to the Tombstone militia and tell them to keep up the good work, fuck do me a favor while you're at it sew up some white sheets and pointy hats to hand out.

peace to all who had to struggle to survive in this fucked up world...no matter where you're from.

Para toda mi gente de minoria que conoce o sabe lo que es sobrevivir en un paiz desconocido donde tratan a humanos como criminales o ciudadanos de segunda clase cuando lo unico que deseamos son derechos iguales y tener la misma oportunidad que a otro ser humano. Lamento ver a un grupo de personas especialmente a jovenes americanos teniendo en mente que es correcto tratar a immigrantes como se estan tratando ahora mismo. Lo unico que puedo decir es que no dejemos que nuestros DERECHOS HUMANOS no sean revocados o maltratados por nadie!

PAZ

:lighter :lighter :lighter

Calbha

11-20-2002, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by Smooth Operator
http://www.pocho.com/features/TDWK/tdwk_gobacktomexico.jpg

man smooth im sorry you feel that way

Smooth Operator

11-20-2002, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Pureform

We want to teach bilingual education in our schools? fuck that! its moronic. It creates a huge language barrier between people in this so called melting pot country.

I had a bilingual Education and have never had any Languague Barrier problems.

Its not that hard to learn english if you already speak spanish...theyre both latin based!!!!

English is not a Romance based language it is Germanic... If you speak Spanish then it will be easier to learn Italian, Portuguese and French.

Calbha

11-20-2002, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by <RAW>

Para toda mi gente de minoria que conoce o sabe lo que es sobrevivir en un paiz desconocido donde tratan a humanos como criminales o ciudadanos de segunda clase cuando lo unico que deseamos son derechos iguales y tener la misma oportunidad que a otro ser humano. Lamento ver a un grupo de personas especialmente a jovenes americanos teniendo en mente que es correcto tratar a immigrantes como se estan tratando ahora mismo. Lo unico que puedo decir es que no dejemos que nuestros DERECHOS HUMANOS no sean revocados o maltratados por nadie!

PAZ

:lighter :lighter :lighter

Raw tho im not a minority now i do know what it is like because i've lived as a minority so amen to what you said, because i know what its like to be treated like that.

Smooth Operator

11-20-2002, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Calbha

man smooth im sorry you feel that way

I posted the "Those Darn White Kids" (Family Circus) pic for shits and giggles. It clearly reflects the sentiment of the threads author.

Dub-U-Eff

11-20-2002, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by nikalodeeun
[B it is a threat to me and my family and my country when i know that in fact, someone could easily smuggle a weapon of mass distruction into my state and set it off. doesn't that scare you? [/B] Honey, as long as human beings are walking the face of the earth, we're all at risk off getting blown away...The future is inevitable...Nuclear/Atomic weapons will spell the end of mankind (and every other kind for that matter)...If you want to champion a cause (be it worthwhile or not), rally for the eradication of nuclear weapons (that includes th U.S.)

nikalodeeun

11-21-2002, 03:02 AM

people seem to be misunderstanding what i'm saying. I NEVER SAID "MEXICAN" i said ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!!! all of you came up with that term on your own. to make that absolutely clear, my best friend is mexican. now let me take a deep breath.... ok here i go...

the people who are here illegally will work for much less than minimum wage. this puts the citizens in a position where they cannot get jobs because businesses must pay them minimum wage. why pay more, right? now, think about it... if there was no illegal immigrants here to hire for $2.50 an hour, who would take those "dirt jobs" that "no one else is willing to do?" With the lower class, legal citizens taking these jobs at minimum, everyone else would benefit. I bet most of the people arguing for border jumping also advocate restrictions on the "evil" big businesses. How hypocritical of you to then help them extort these people for their own profit. You're probably also the people who want us to save our land, and stop pollution. Then why would you want us to take away one of the most important controls our government uses to keep our population in check? Strange, but then again that's why I love being a conservitive. We actually think before we choose our opinions.

Mr. Nelson, I don't know if you missed the Ukrane comment, or maybe you don't even what the Ukrane is. And where do you get your figure of 15% Hispanic in Arizona. I think the actual figure is in the 40s. But then again that is why I try not to associate myself with criminals.

Dub, I know we are all in danger, but the moment we give up the fight is the moment we accept our fate.

Illegal immigration, is against the law. There is no question about that. This law is necessary for many reasons. Those reasons pertain to the burdens it causes on our poor, like their ability to get jobs, and have safe, clean, less crowded places to live. We have all broken a law once in a while, but most of us understand why it is there and we pay our dues. This is why we are so angry about the fact that the perpetrators of this crime continue to go unpunished. Just another example of the idea that all people EXCEPT AMERICANS are equal.

Calbha

11-21-2002, 03:50 AM

Originally posted by nikalodeeun
people seem to be misunderstanding what i'm saying. I NEVER SAID "MEXICAN" i said ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!!! all of you came up with that term on your own. to make that absolutely clear, my best friend is mexican. now let me take a deep breath.... ok here i go...

the people who are here illegally will work for much less than minimum wage. this puts the citizens in a position where they cannot get jobs because businesses must pay them minimum wage. why pay more, right? now, think about it... if there was no illegal immigrants here to hire for $2.50 an hour, who would take those "dirt jobs" that "no one else is willing to do?" With the lower class, legal citizens taking these jobs at minimum, everyone else would benefit. I bet most of the people arguing for border jumping also advocate restrictions on the "evil" big businesses. How hypocritical of you to then help them extort these people for their own profit. You're probably also the people who want us to save our land, and stop pollution. Then why would you want us to take away one of the most important controls our government uses to keep our population in check? Strange, but then again that's why I love being a conservitive. We actually think before we choose our opinions.

Mr. Nelson, I don't know if you missed the Ukrane comment, or maybe you don't even what the Ukrane is. And where do you get your figure of 15% Hispanic in Arizona. I think the actual figure is in the 40s. But then again that is why I try not to associate myself with criminals.

Dub, I know we are all in danger, but the moment we give up the fight is the moment we accept our fate.

Illegal immigration, is against the law. There is no question about that. This law is necessary for many reasons. Those reasons pertain to the burdens it causes on our poor, like their ability to get jobs, and have safe, clean, less crowded places to live. We have all broken a law once in a while, but most of us understand why it is there and we pay our dues. This is why we are so angry about the fact that the perpetrators of this crime continue to go unpunished. Just another example of the idea that all people EXCEPT AMERICANS are equal.

i didn't see anyone say you said mexican. so where is that comming from.

10 bux says you break the law blantantly every single day most of us do no one is perfect but where is the line between its okay to roll slowly through a stop sighn to flat out murdering someone wrong? (not sure if that was clear if you got questions i can elaborate later)

as for being in danger dont think that were the only country in danger. you hear it on the news all the time of bombings happening all over the world. why is it such a big deal when it happens to america but shrugged off when it happens to somwhere eles? thats something i never understood about 9/11. im not saying 9/11 was a good thing but where is the support in africa where theres millions of starving children? wheres the support in ecuador when the volcanos recently errupted? wheres the support in ireland when building after building is getting bomb from the religous wars? Wheres the support in Columbia during there drug wars. but damn it we lose a couple of building and the whole world pulls together to help us out and everyone here is acting like all hell has broken loose when it just turns out we are finally experiencing what has been happing all around us for years. by all means im not promoting the attacks on us but i cant help but wonder what makes us so much more special that the other countries that need help. why do we deserve help from everyone?

finally: NEARLY EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY HAS HAD ITS RISE AND FALL TO WORLD POWER Greece, France, Italy, Germany, Russia, China, England,.....the list goes on. North America has been a world power for a while and though i throughly enjoy it I AM GOING TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT IT WILL NOT LAST FOREVER. it would be silly to live in some dream world thinking that we will never fall. im not saying that hand over the surrendur flag to sadam or bin laden but just know everyone gets there turn being king of the hill and i belive that our turn is almost up.

NextLevel

11-21-2002, 11:59 AM

history is very clear about one thing.... A society/country is ALWAYS on its way up or its way down. You make the call.

peace

clay

11-21-2002, 12:57 PM

How can anyone support these redneck old men with rifles cruising the desert in trucks trying to stop families? If you have spent much time in the Southwest you'd know that these are probably the same "snipers" who have been picking these people off for years. The cops probably just got sick of covering for them... so now they are working together. Only someone of Mexican descent or someone who has experienced life in Mexico can come close to understanding the toil of poverty that many (not all) endure. All children are required to go to school here. To the south, only the kids that don't have to work like adults are able to go. Besides, our economy is dependant on immigrant labor. I get sick and fucking tired of my fellow citizens complaining about the Mexicans taking our jobs. You know why they are taking our jobs? Because they work harder and better than most of our lazy asses! minimum wage in Jalisco, Mexico (one of the wealthiest states) is approximately FIVE DOLLARS A DAY. and living expenses are greater than most think. I am not hispanic, but I have a deep love for Mexico and it's people. I speak pretty damn good spanish and I have spent quite a bit of time in places other than border towns and party spots. If I were to encounter a group of coyotes in the desert, I would do everything I could to aid them. that is all.

pimP sAuCy

11-21-2002, 01:03 PM

funny thing is dat all this ignorance,cause it cant b called anything else. is coming from an inmigrant. not just any inmigrant but one from the eastern block.one dat was oppressed to no end by communist,dictators,ect. its like give em a break...ur ignorance makes me bend ma favorite vynil..:crack:::i bet ur mom cant speak english all da way yet....n this is personal. cause u put all of us non white folk, who have decendants from da south in da same boat. do u think im wearing a sombrero n sippin on aquanet(hairspray)..?? just the other day in class this lady was goin off on how accidents here in az where mostly caused by no license
no insurance having MEXICANS..funny thing this ladys from vietnam.uhmm..things dat make u go uhm..on the way
north on 1 10 in a rest area theres a monument dedicated to how the US jacked arizona new mexico califrnia colorad nevada texas from MEXICO.. but wait.did u know dat more mexicans hung during the slavery years dan slaves..its like what do u do with all this mexicans left in ur new found land...if anyone should b pissed is da native americans. yes them injuns.:ninja
n cant we all just get along? n remember u reep what u sow.
abel-

hardcore junkie

11-21-2002, 01:17 PM

LONG LIVE HOLLAND!

just wish i could find a way to become a citizen there!

Pureform

11-21-2002, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Calbha

i didn't see anyone say you said mexican. so where is that comming from.

i never mentioned mexico either, but some how i feel like the mexican mafia has a hit on me after this thread.:rolleyes touchy bastards :D :foff

What would have happened 250 years ago in Lexington if a COMMON CITIZEN named paul revere didnt watch the boarder of this new home land. He saw the british coming to invade and rode his horse through town in the middle of the night yelling "the british are coming! the british are coming!" Good thing he was watching the boarder that night or we'd all be in another country right now...Ukrane, Spain, Italy, Germany, wherever our ancestors are from. :eek

clay

11-21-2002, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Pureform

What would have happened 250 years ago in Lexington if a COMMON CITIZEN named paul revere didnt watch the boarder of this new home land. He saw the british coming to invade and rode his horse through town in the middle of the night yelling "the british are coming! the british are coming!" Good thing he was watching the boarder that night or we'd all be in another country right now...Ukrane, Spain, Italy, Germany, wherever our ancestors are from. :eek

what the fuck does this have to do with Mexico? you think they are trying to attack us or make us pay them taxes? gimme a break!

Pureform

11-21-2002, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by clay

what the fuck does this have to do with Mexico? you think they are trying to attack us or make us pay them taxes? gimme a break!

i was just trying to make the point that our country was founded on citizens protecting our borders.

Pureform

11-21-2002, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by pimP sAuCy
just the other day in class this lady was goin off on how accidents here in az where mostly caused by no license
no insurance having MEXICANS...

My mom was rear ended in a car accident and could have died. The guy that hit her was going almost 50mph and was an illegal immigrant with no insurance and no license. His slimey ass left the scene, not even caring if my mom was alive or alright. My mom ended up paying for her own medical bills and car repair bills because of.....(drum roll please).........AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT that was too stupid to come over here LEGALLY and obtain a licence and insurence!!:holy shit Illegal immigrants are to much of a liability in this country, as you can tell from my story. Dont get me wrong people...I love every race, creed, color, religion, etc....so i dont care who comes over here, just as long as they're legal and can insure themselves in these kinda situations.

Originally posted by pimP sAuCy
..if anyone should b pissed is da native americans. yes them injuns.:ninja

Ive got alot of native american blood in me....im not mad at all. Im not even at the injun comment. The europeans came over and turned this land into something great, but thats a whole nother topic.:D

Marco

11-21-2002, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Pureform

My mom was rear ended in a car accident and could have died. The guy that hit her was going almost 50mph and was an illegal immigrant with no insurance and no license. His slimey ass left the scene, not even caring if my mom was alive or alright. My mom ended up paying for her own medical bills and car repair bills because of.....(drum roll please).........AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT that was too stupid to come over here LEGALLY and obtain a licence and insurence!!:holy shit Illegal immigrants are to much of a liability in this country, as you can tell from my story. Dont get me wrong people...I love every race, creed, color, religion, etc....so i dont care who comes over here, just as long as they're legal and can insure themselves in these kinda situations.

Seriously man, leaving the scene of an accident and driving without a license or insurance is clearly illegal but hardly an illegal immigrant issue. Your mom was involved in an unfortunate situation and I hope she's ok but would you have felt better if a legal citizen without insurance or a license would have rear ended her and left the scene. Again, I fail to see how this is an illegal immigrant problem.

IonSant

11-21-2002, 05:09 PM

Fact is that ya should be proud of having Latino Americanos
in the U.S. --Just as when Americans travel to Mexico and are
welcomed with open arms. Below Jalisco there is a Beautiful
town called San Miguel de Allende 30% of it's population is American, I found no one with complaints about the Americans Illegally occupying this land, we Harmonized the joint BITCH!:p

And if you think Mexicans misbehave in the states, go down to
Nogales and Tijuana on a Friday night and watch the Americans.:laughing

Sounds like all the SHIT talkers have never traveled, nor
have any fucken CULTURAL sense, Immigration is ILLEGAL
yeah we got the part---but I think Latin Americans have a GOD
earned right to be in this COUNTRY who has fucked us for 300 years, with Coups, Economic Interventions, Wars...and before you go talking shit to this comment do some research on AMERICAN domination in Latin America. :up

Roxy Monoxide

11-21-2002, 05:15 PM

IonSant

11-21-2002, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Pureform
Ive got alot of native american blood in me....im not mad at all. Im not even at the injun comment. The europeans came over and turned this land into something great.

:laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing

Pureform

11-21-2002, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Marco

Seriously man, leaving the scene of an accident and driving without a license or insurance is clearly illegal but hardly an illegal immigrant issue. Your mom was involved in an unfortunate situation and I hope she's ok but would you have felt better if a legal citizen without insurance or a license would have rear ended her and left the scene. Again, I fail to see how this is an illegal immigrant problem.

my point was that if he was LEGAL he could have obtained a licence and insurance. But he was illegal so he was not able to obtain either. this isnt a race issue.

Pureform

11-21-2002, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by IonSant

:laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing

The US is great isnt it? i dont see the humor. if you dont like the good 'ol USA than leave.

IonSant

11-21-2002, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by Pureform
Ive got alot of native american blood in me....im not mad at all. Im not even at the injun comment. The europeans came over and turned this land into something great.

I see the humor, Basically what you said was I am an INDIAN
and I love what the WHITE Man DID to this LAND...
hahaha like i said before:
:laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing
Oh MAN haha i meant to
say::laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing

Smooth Operator

11-21-2002, 06:05 PM

Mexican attack plans found at the Alamo

SAN ANTONIO >pocho.com Nearly 165 years after the attack on the Alamo, researchers say they have found the Mexican army's attack plans. Written on maize tortillas, these plans detail the attack that has become of of the most infamous defeats of U.S. armed forces. American icons that perished in the Alamo massacre include such notable characters as Davie Cracker and Colonel Jack D. Ripper. To actually find the plans at this moment in American history is a gift from God, really," said head researcher Iluva Busch. "It confirms that everyone really is out to get us and we better kick their ass before they kick ours""

Marco

11-21-2002, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Pureform

my point was that if he was LEGAL he could have obtained a licence and insurance. But he was illegal so he was not able to obtain either. this isnt a race issue.

Again, how is this an illegal immigrant issue (I'm not saying it's a a race issue either). You're basically saying that because this person was illegal he didn't have a license or insurance and so if he "was LEGAL he could have obtained a licence and insurance then". But what if he was LEGAL without license or insurance. Actually something similar happened to me:

I was rear ended in a car accident and could have died. The guy that hit me was going almost 45mph and was a legal immigrant with no insurance and no license. His slimey ass left the scene, not even caring I was alive or alright. My insurance ended up paying for my medical bills and car repair bills because I was properly insured, still this inconvenience and disruption in my life was brought by.....(drum roll please).........A LEGAL IMMIGRANT

This actually happened to me, but using the word legal immigrant sounds pretty silly doesn't it? All I'm saying is that the fact your mom was hit by some asshole without insurance and fled the scene has nothing to do with his immigration status.

NextLevel

11-21-2002, 06:24 PM

LOOK! These people have many more opportunities to make something of themselves and escape our slavery if they have to LEARN ENGLISH! IT IS BETTER FOR THEM!!!!!!! THINK ABOUT IT!!!!

Smooth Operator

11-21-2002, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by NextLevel
LOOK! These people have many more opportunities to make something of themselves and escape our slavery if they have to LEARN ENGLISH! IT IS BETTER FOR THEM!!!!!!! THINK ABOUT IT!!!!

Is AMERICA becoming NAZI GERMANY? :laughing :D :p :crazy

Pureform

11-21-2002, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by Marco

Again, how is this an illegal immigrant issue

it is an illegal immigrant issue because illegal immigrants cant get insured in this country. Im sure if the guy that hit my mom was legal, he would have been able to get insured, and his insurance would have paid for the accident.:D not my poor momma.:confused

paulfear

11-21-2002, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by hardcore junkie
LONG LIVE HOLLAND!

just wish i could find a way to become a citizen there!

Holland is currently trying to tighten immigration laws. In fact, they had a new party sweep to power with an anti-immigration platform amongst others. This party teamed up in a coalition government with some other conservative parties. They are starting to collaspe ever since the leader of the new party was murdered before the elections.

You are seeing this anti-immigrant sentiment sprouting up across the globe. We are still pretty lax on this right now comparitively.

Pureform

11-21-2002, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by IonSant

I see the humor, Basically what you said was I am an INDIAN
and I love what the WHITE Man DID to this LAND...
hahaha like i said before:
:laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing
Oh MAN haha i meant to
say::laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing

The white man did some fucked up shit to the indians for sure. im not denying that. but coming from both white and indian backgrounds make me the product of europeans and indians getting along, making friends, falling in love, and starting a family.
If it werent for indians and whites putting aside their differences and getting along, then i wouldnt be sitting here having this discussions with all you cool peeps. :D

Fractal

11-21-2002, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by paulfear

Holland is currently trying to tighten immigration laws. In fact, they had a new party sweep to power with an anti-immigration platform amongst others. This party teamed up in a coalition government with some other conservative parties. They are starting to collaspe ever since the leader of the new party was murdered before the elections.

are you talking bout the CPA? they're fucking evil!! they we're tryna say they were gonna clean up amsterdam and shit... make it squealky like... what kind of crazy talk is that? economicly i mean

:D

Calbha

11-22-2002, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Pureform

My mom was rear ended in a car accident and could have died. The guy that hit her was going almost 50mph and was an illegal immigrant with no insurance and no license. His slimey ass left the scene, not even caring if my mom was alive or alright. My mom ended up paying for her own medical bills and car repair bills because of.....(drum roll please).........AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT that was too stupid to come over here LEGALLY and obtain a licence and insurence!!:holy shit Illegal immigrants are to much of a liability in this country, as you can tell from my story. Dont get me wrong people...I love every race, creed, color, religion, etc....so i dont care who comes over here, just as long as they're legal and can insure themselves in these kinda situations.

Ive got alot of native american blood in me....im not mad at all. Im not even at the injun comment. The europeans came over and turned this land into something great, but thats a whole nother topic.:D

d00d what about the lawyer that killed the asu student? does this mean anyone that is studying law should be shipped out of the country? i read a article in the arizona republic encourageing people to run after they hit someone stating that they have a better chance of getting away because the laws are so lax here on hit and runs so dont even try and put that on illegal immigrants!

Calbha

11-22-2002, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by Pureform

The US is great isnt it? i dont see the humor. if you dont like the good 'ol USA than leave.

I'm workin on it

Calbha

11-22-2002, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by Smooth Operator
Mexican attack plans found at the Alamo

SAN ANTONIO >pocho.com Nearly 165 years after the attack on the Alamo, researchers say they have found the Mexican army's attack plans. Written on maize tortillas, these plans detail the attack that has become of of the most infamous defeats of U.S. armed forces. American icons that perished in the Alamo massacre include such notable characters as Davie Cracker and Colonel Jack D. Ripper. To actually find the plans at this moment in American history is a gift from God, really," said head researcher Iluva Busch. "It confirms that everyone really is out to get us and we better kick their ass before they kick ours""

attack plans written on corn tortillas found a 165 year later? id think it would have disinigrated by now. man those must have been soem perserved tortillas:laughing

nikalodeeun

11-22-2002, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by pimP sAuCy
funny thing is dat all this ignorance,cause it cant b called anything else. is coming from an inmigrant. not just any inmigrant but one from the eastern block.one dat was oppressed to no end by communist,dictators,ect. its like give em a break...ur ignorance makes me bend ma favorite vynil..:crack:::i bet ur mom cant speak english all da way yet....n this is personal. cause u put all of us non white folk, who have decendants from da south in da same boat. do u think im wearing a sombrero n sippin on aquanet(hairspray)..?? just the other day in class this lady was goin off on how accidents here in az where mostly caused by no license
no insurance having MEXICANS..funny thing this ladys from vietnam.uhmm..things dat make u go uhm..on the way
north on 1 10 in a rest area theres a monument dedicated to how the US jacked arizona new mexico califrnia colorad nevada texas from MEXICO.. but wait.did u know dat more mexicans hung during the slavery years dan slaves..its like what do u do with all this mexicans left in ur new found land...if anyone should b pissed is da native americans. yes them injuns.:ninja
n cant we all just get along? n remember u reep what u sow.
abel-

you know what...up until i read this, i was trying really hard to be civil among the people who were calling me names and such. i was tryin to keep this going so people on this board could look on to this post and educate and inform themselves, but nOOOO. you had to go and make it "personal" talkin shit about my mom. so u wanna make it personal, go ahead. i'm not gonna mention all the shit my family has went through being jewish (the most persecuted people in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD). i'm not gonna go into all that. my mom spoke english long before you were born. she made it a point to learn the language of the place she would be living in. in any case, it's not like the spaniards didn't come and kill off the mexican people long before the english even came here. it's fine for you to talk shit to WHITE PEOPLE and have it be OK. i know mexicans who are paler than me. if you looked at em you'd think they were white, and you would be thinkin in your head "that fucking gringo" when the whole time you're talkin about your own people. you call me ignorant? i am educated enough to spell that with a "th". :fu
anyway. fuck this! i'm done posting.
props to next level/former 504/threetrackmind crew for holdin it down. continue on with the righteous and valiant cause. as for me, i'm done posting if it means i have to have stupid ass racist motherfuckers insulting my intellingence. it's not worth my time. i'll go back to posting jokes and such.

:rinse :bandit

Mantis Claw

11-22-2002, 10:26 AM

Not to fuel your fire Nik....for real, I'm not trying to fuel your fire, but I will have to contend that the jews are not the most oppressed people of Earth. 98.something% of the Native American population was wiped out. Not to mention the genocide that continues to this day in Africa. It would be cool if you(Nikki) could respond to my post earlier on this thread, just curious of what you think of it.

Marco

11-22-2002, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Pureform

it is an illegal immigrant issue because illegal immigrants cant get insured in this country. Im sure if the guy that hit my mom was legal, he would have been able to get insured, and his insurance would have paid for the accident.:D not my poor momma.:confused

Man, I'm tellin you I was hit by a person that was legal, and he still didn't have insurance. What makes you so sure that if the man that hit your mom was legal he would have had insurance? I might also add that I had "Uninsured and Underinsured Motorist Coverage" which is an option in this state and something your mom probably didn't have (or she wouldn't have paid for the accident). But anyway, I'm done arguing this point. If you still believe that the uninsured motorist problem in this state is an illegal immigrant problem, fine, obviously I'm not gonna change your mind.

Originally posted by Pureform

If it werent for indians and whites putting aside their differences and getting along, then i wouldnt be sitting here having this discussions with all you cool peeps.

So you actually believe this? The indians, and whites put their differences aside? So this plan of "putting aside their differences" included assimilation and placing indians in reservations? Pureform when you say you've "got alot of native american blood" in you, can you be more specific? I'm just a bit puzzled by you responses here (for a while I honestly thought you were joking, but it seems like you're serious).

carymakebaby

11-22-2002, 11:42 AM

unity unity unity unity unity unity unity unity unity.....my pops was born in guadalajara..............jalisco baby........damn him...bringin the white man down........................................lol... ...UNITY UNITY UNITY.........HEY have you guys checked out those new mac's???????..........there great...even for illegals......act fast..for you might be deported.........

nikalodeeun

11-22-2002, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Mantis Claw
I don't think we will do this topic any justice if we don't consider the larger picture and the system that is at work. We consider it wrong for outsiders to come into our country and benifit from us. But what about this country's corprate pirates that go into foriegn nations to rape and pillage their economies and people. Just look across the border if you are in El Paso and see the effects of this system. Our system worships only one thing, THE ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR. What ever it takes for the dollar to be made will be done, at any and all levels of the system. We are in no position to think we are rightous in our views of keeping out those that are being fucked by a system that allows us our privilages.

jimi, as different as our opinions are, i respect you, cuz you actually put thought into what you post on here, and you have educated yourself. this country doesn't think it's wrong for people to come and benefit from the system. but we do think it's wrong when those people take advantage of it (i.e. welfare). look at my family for example, we came to this country without a penny to our names and now live in scottsdale, one of the wealthiest places in america. this country was founded on free enterprise, competition, and capitalism. if we were to get rid of all these things and revert to a socialistic economy, this country would no longer be the great flourishing melting pot of culture that it currently is. i have friends from all backgrounds, (brian is palestinean, and we still manage to be good friends), and i think that would only be possible in this country. as hard as it is to withstand the struggles of poverty and oppression, a person can still find it in him to be honest and go through the process of becoming an american citizen. i wonder how those people would feel if they were not just a backyard away, but across an entire ocean, and the only way to come to this country was to go through the process? that's what my family had to do. we waited for about ten years (in 89 when we had their paperwork to leave till 1999 when my parents finally took the oath). i have friends back in kiev who are still waiting.