So N. Korea has 2 nukes?

[Preecha]

Can't be fighting 2 wars on 2 fronts, can we? Now the threat that I will be called back into enlistment grows closer.

[NextLevel]

I agree! We can't! Thats why Hitler lost. thank god:eek

[cpud]

Originally posted by Preecha
Can't be fighting 2 wars on 2 fronts, can we? Now the threat that I will be called back into enlistment grows closer.

North Korea and Iraq are anything but Superpowers like the United States of America... I don't think you have to start worrying about that now :spliff

[Preecha]

Superpowers means what? Having nukes is a big concern. If you know alittle about S. Korean defenses all It would take is a nuke in the N's hands to warrant them move the troops south ;) The desert and Korea are where most of our fighting forces are.

[NextLevel]

yeah..seriously..A super power with a nuke isnt any more of a threat than "jim" down the street who happened to get one. Now we find that Iran may have some. Yet no one has brought up the REAL issue.

Why should they disarm. Why are THEY not allowed to defend themselves? Why are WE allowed to have them? Oh yeah....cause we are imperialistic and racist! We cant let the "yellow commies" and "terrorists" have them. I bet we wouldnt say SHIT to Isreal! And lets remember......WE are the ONLY ones to EVER use a NUCLEAR bomb against another country!:down

[Preecha]

Yeah I dont really see how we can keep the others from getting nukes. But, I do see how they are in violation of the agreements not to manufacture more nukes and even keep their nuclear reactors off or what not. They have removed the tracking devices that the UN(?) put on their last plant, so that we cannot monitor what is done in that area. So it really is a big thing to start thinking about, as the North is adamant about getting the US out of their country/way.

[NextLevel]

I agree and it SCARES me. But on a basic level I dont understand how we can expect them to let us monitor them. What would happen if they threatened war unless THEY were allowed to monitor us? What if Saddam said he would attack if we did not let HIS inspectors in? Why are THEY terrorists any more than WE are? I LOVE what this country was founded on! I HATGE what is happening to it! :(

[Dub-U-Eff]

Originally posted by NextLevel
I agree and it SCARES me. But on a basic level I dont understand how we can expect them to let us monitor them. What would happen if they threatened war unless THEY were allowed to monitor us? What if Saddam said he would attack if we did not let HIS inspectors in? Why are THEY terrorists any more than WE are? I LOVE what this country was founded on! I HATGE what is happening to it! :( Right on bruva!

[cpud]

Originally posted by NextLevel
I agree and it SCARES me. But on a basic level I dont understand how we can expect them to let us monitor them. What would happen if they threatened war unless THEY were allowed to monitor us? What if Saddam said he would attack if we did not let HIS inspectors in? Why are THEY terrorists any more than WE are? I LOVE what this country was founded on! I HATGE what is happening to it! :(

Saddam is a maniac. He gasses his own people. This reason alone is enough for me to warrent a complete disarm.

[NextLevel]

I agree... but we gave him weapons, looked the other way when he gassed his own people and lets face it, we dont give a SHIT about them. We have supported countless BRUTAL regimes over the years, slaughtered MILLIONS of people (sometimes for politics) and have USED nuclear weapons! In fact... Bush Sr. is the ONLY person EVER convicted by a world court for crimes against humanity. How can anyone buy into this BULLSHIT about "liberating" these people. That is the most brainwashed ignorant thing I have ever heard.

By your standards... shouldnt we disarm? We spent 27 billion dollars last year on nukes:raging

[Danielle V]

Originally posted by NextLevel
I agree and it SCARES me. But on a basic level I dont understand how we can expect them to let us monitor them. What would happen if they threatened war unless THEY were allowed to monitor us? What if Saddam said he would attack if we did not let HIS inspectors in? Why are THEY terrorists any more than WE are? I LOVE what this country was founded on! I HATGE what is happening to it! :(


learn the basics first.
they can expect us to monitor them because they are violating pacts they originally agreed upon in conjunction with the united nations. north korea is not allowed to have nuclear weapons. point, period, blank. i lived in seoul korea for 2 or 3 years growing up. my dad was the battalion commander of the 2ndMI in camp hovey/casey in north korea..... it was the job of alot of his men to sit up on that wall and protect the south from the north. other nations are allowed to tell north korea they cant have those kinds of weapons because, basically, they have proven (beyond a shadow of a doubt) that they cannot handle thay responsibility with the diplomatic restraint necessary to maintain world peace. they are a threat. it is a scary situation. one that does not need to be questioned, rather understood.
read about the things the north have done to the south.
read about the things the north do to their own people.
read about what they stand for and what they are capable of.
and then tell me we are accountable to them....
im as against preemptive american warfare as much as the next, but fighting n. korea is as un-preemptive as it comes.
-d

[NextLevel]

learn the basics first? Oh I'm sorry! I forgot! They are violating a treaty they were forced into by WAR! Who forced them into it? Oh yeah... we did. They have never used nuclear weaqpons! We have... who has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they cant be trusted? I agree they should not have them because NO ONE SHOULD! But since WE have chosen to keep nuclear weapons, why cant they? Are we so fair and just? NO! We talk of the war on terrorism yet we support the largest terrorist nations on earth. We give them money and we arm them. But oh no.....they are not terrorists....they are "freedom fighters" come the fuck on! I know of the atrocities of north and south korea.. do you know of the atrocities of the US? Why is there a double standard?:ninja

[Mantis Claw]

Originally posted by NextLevel
learn the basics first? Oh I'm sorry! I forgot! They are violating a treaty they were forced into by WAR! Who forced them into it? Oh yeah... we did. They have never used nuclear weaqpons! We have... who has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they cant be trusted? I agree they should not have them because NO ONE SHOULD! But since WE have chosen to keep nuclear weapons, why cant they? Are we so fair and just? NO! We talk of the war on terrorism yet we support the largest terrorist nations on earth. We give them money and we arm them. But oh no.....they are not terrorists....they are "freedom fighters" come the fuck on! I know of the atrocities of north and south korea.. do you know of the atrocities of the US? Why is there a double standard?:ninja

The U.S. is THE largest rogue nation on the planet. This is the basic that needs to be learned.

Preech, if there is any kind of draft or forced inlistment, I'm ghost. What's up with that dj hut in Brazil?

[Danielle V]

Originally posted by NextLevel
learn the basics first? Oh I'm sorry! I forgot! They are violating a treaty they were forced into by WAR! Who forced them into it? Oh yeah... we did. They have never used nuclear weaqpons! We have... who has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they cant be trusted? I agree they should not have them because NO ONE SHOULD! But since WE have chosen to keep nuclear weapons, why cant they? Are we so fair and just? NO! We talk of the war on terrorism yet we support the largest terrorist nations on earth. We give them money and we arm them. But oh no.....they are not terrorists....they are "freedom fighters" come the fuck on! I know of the atrocities of north and south korea.. do you know of the atrocities of the US? Why is there a double standard?:ninja

are you forgeting why we used them?
we were attacked by the japanese.
the japanese we not going to stop unless drastic measures were taken. theres was a civilization based on honor and for them, there is nothing but dishonor in defeat. it wasnt the proudest moment for either country. but it happened, the war ended. end of story.

arent you the same guy who makes those anti-semetic rants on the board simpathizing with the palistinians over the isralis instead of recognizing the faults of both groups?

and now you are proclaiming the past atrocities of the united states warrents equal power and weapons capabilities granted to leaders who (to this day) starve and kill their own people, force them to stay in their country granting no free will to their citizens, and believe in everything opposite that which the united states government and its allies have sworn to protect? (north korea)
there have been people like you in the united states since its founding. those who take the role of devils advocate and literally advocate that which should naturally be opposed. jane fonda was another. hanging out with the vietkong, getting to know them as people just 50 feet from captured and caged american pow's.
im as liberal as the next. (no seriously, look at other posts of mine> im not exactly miss call-to-war over here) but theres a point when even i have to step back and realize we may not be the greatest nation, but others are far far worse.
and yes, learning the basics is required.
-d

[NextLevel]

ok... first of all... I AM a Semite so saying I am anti semitic is a little silly dont ya think? Moreover I DO reognize both siedes and their faults but since the Palestinian actions are so well publicized I dont feel I need to elaborate. Additionally, we do not supply them with money, weapons and political power while proclaiming that they are peacefull loving people.
As for the nukes..I dont want ANYONE to have them. I just dont see how we can be taken seriously while we still have them and continue to build them. And yes...there are FAR worse countries out there but I am afraid that we are destroying ourselves with our arrogance and short sighted policies.


there have been people like you in the united states since its founding. those who take the role of devils advocate and literally advocate that which should naturally be opposed

there should be people "like me." And it is not devils advocate. It is not for the sake of argument. I truly beleive that our motives are political and we have NO right to demand something that we ourselves are not prepared or willing to do. Think about it.
I LOVE what this country is founded on and if I diddnt I wouldnt bother writing these posts! Incidentally, if it werent for "people like me" questioning things then what would stop them from turning on us? We would be in the same position that N. Korea is in now!

[Calbha]

Originally posted by NextLevel
In fact... Bush Sr. is the ONLY person EVER convicted by a world court for crimes against humanity...

correct me if i am wrong because i very well may be....but weren't there alot of nazi's convicted of crimes against humanity....i could have sworn there have been others too.


Cpud:North Korea and Iraq are anything but Superpowers like the United States of America... I don't think you have to start worrying about that now

Dont you think thats a little ignorant to feel that way? im not trying to start anything but i just dont think the US is going to stay a superpower forever...it is possible in our life times we fall....a ton of countries have had there rise and fall but nothing good last forever.....


And once again i ask.......How does killing people innocent or soldiers solve the worlds problems?

[NextLevel]

correct me if i am wrong because i very well may be....but weren't there alot of nazi's convicted of crimes against humanity....i could have sworn there have been others too.

yes they were by us and our allies.. but not by the "World Court."

not to say hes the only one though!

[Calbha]

Originally posted by Xaria
So they have weapons, and we don't trust them. Is there a reason they feel they need to collect weapons of mass destruction? Is there a reason we don't trust them? Are we all just being ruled by fear, or is there any positive possible outcome by using military action? Is the struggle a matter of economics or pride?


Albert once said, "You can not simotaneously prevent and prepare for war."

So basically you have to choose wether or not you want to put time, energy, and money into fighting or getting along.

WARNING: From here on out this post contains nothing war related.

I haven't seen and don't know shit as far as not getting along on a multi-national level, but remembering middle school, I remember that it was alot easier to talk shit to someone I felt friction with than it was to forgive them for being human then befriend them. And the real hard part was accepting my own deficiancies and claiming my mistakes. You have to try so much harder to change someone's opinions of you when they have only been exposed to a specific (specifically ugly) side of you. My defensive feeble scared side emits only my worst possible mindstate, having no perspective but a selfish one that offends. And the worst part about my weaknesses are that I like to deny they exist. We don't seem to pay nearly as much attention to why a problem exists as we pay to what the problem is. So what? I am nearly certain that the person I shared this competitive relationship with back in the day did not really know why I was mean to her. I didn't really even know, but miscommunications and harsh judgments seperated a small group of children into smaller groups of less mature ones. Since this makes no sense to anyone that didn't go to my K-8 small town school, I will lay out the basic plot. If you wan't to avoid an inconsequencial soap opera... please stop now.
Yes it starts with a boy. And then there was me with my first boyfriend and not too much interest in him. I mean I loved to talk with him for hours about anything...but I was sooo shy that when we weren't on the phone I was treating him no different than my best girlfriends, but he would rather participate in 'smear the queer' with his buddies than chasing butterflies with mine. Anyway another girly came along with ass hanging out of her shorts and took him away. I didn't deal with my own frustration about my shyness so I inadvertantly became angry at girly. I let pent up rage I felt towards me, spill in her direction. In less than a year most the kids basically chose sides. I am a bitch or she is a slut. Both untrue sides manifested anguish and turned me into a bitch, and made her want a piece of boy even more. There was never any physical violence(come on we're talking 11 yr old chicks here), but there was definite sabatoge. It took me years to realize that I didn't hate her for her provacative ways but was jealous that she could express a sexuality that I hadn't even developed yet. Instead of talking to my allies about my pain, I saved my tears for my pillow and started making more fun of girly's wedgey. I judged her intentions by the clothes she chose rather than accepting her freedom of choice and dealing with the repricussions of my own actions(or not getting any action in this case). A simple mistake that cost me some post junior high guilt and cost girly her reputation. Granted we both had happy lives besides the quibble, but all that drama had no point and no gain...other the lessons learned. So... to join into the discussion of a war I know no facts about...I tried to extract a moral from my little therapy session, please excuse... but here goes nothing...
As we escallate the levels of not getting along to the scope of war, the stakes are higher(survival of empires rather than ego)...the damage is greater(deaths instead of tears)...the gap is wider(different languages and lands rather than choices of style)...and the lessons are most greusome, apparently hard to learn and easy to forget.

Can't we all just get along?

Q. Where is the love at?
A. Everywhere, always waiting to be embraced.

But I am not lying... if someone who didn't like me was pissed off and packing a gun, I probably wouldn't seize that moment to try to overcome differences and become friends. And if I was scared enough, I would see what I could do to remove their weapon or upgrade mine...even if I wasn't mad enough to use it ... yet.

war =:daeth
:love = good
but what can be done?
:confused :bounce :p... :rinse :reload ...:(

THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN TRYIN TO SAY PEOPLE! :holy shit

[Mantis Claw]

Xaria, once again I am feel'n your conscious words. They are most apreciated. :up

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

Its nice to see Bush relaxing his kick ass take names attitude and come to the bargining table with N Korea.

N Korea gaves us a little taste of our own diplomacy. You cant expect to bully everyone around the playground and expect them to do what you want. Now and then there will be that kid who is not going to take your shit and put it right back in your face. It was great to see them use the same tactics to get us to get off our high horse and realize they just want sanctions lifted. In my mind every country has the right to protect itself and the US tries to keep every nation 3rd world. We discoverd nuclear power almost 100 years ago so why wouldnt another civilization who is just as advanced as us also utilize it?

The issue lies with the lawmakers who have lived during the cold war and still have that basic fear that some country out there is going to nuke us into oblivion. Every country who has developed such weapons has shown they realize the outcome. So our diplomacy needs to relax because no longer can we threaten to use force cause now countries are getting the mentality of "Bring it on!".

Time to use your head mr president not warheads.



(Great track by the way):rotfl

[NextLevel]

:lighter :lighter :lighter :up

[some guy]

ok number one; nukes are cheaply attained, if i went to kazakstan and had say bout 50000 dollars and i knew where to go i could get a nuke, now the problem with that is this, nuclear weapons emit something called radiation, as alpha beta and gamma rays, satalites in space can see this like they can see heat and know when a nuke is coming into our country.
number 2, korea is a pish posh problem, they have no delivery system that could reach american soil
number 3, who is the source for these facts? how the hell do you know that korea has 2 nukes, and if they did why such a little number of them?
number 4, building a nuclear weapon of any quality is a precision based science, you cant be like oh were gonna build a nuke! it is not like making a pipe bomb and blowing up a refigerator.
number 5, nuclear weapons should of never been built, ever, i dont care how many lives it saved in ww2 or how it kept the threat of communism away in reality all it did was make peeps fearful of another group of peeps who wanted nothing more than to live their lives in their own way, even the peeps on the manhattan project spoke out against nukes and who would know betta than the guy that made it?
and this is what is happening again, this is our vietnam, think about it, we have a dick head in office whos skewed views on the global community have led its people into fighting a war we dont belong in, north korea is a pish posh problem, instead of spending 600 billion on a war machine that will be out dated before the end of this year lets elect a president and congress that will spend 600 billion getting homeless people into jobs and putting children into better schools

[Xaria]

Word...up.

[Pureform]

Humans separating themselvs into different religions and groups will be the cause of the end of humanity. Millions and millions of people have died because of their religions.... just in the last 100 years alone. :holy shit. Nukes arent the problem. Its humans lame-ass little differences about whos god is right or wrong. Thats why other countries hate us. Theyre jealous and pissed off that we accept all races and religions equally, and they dont want us to enforce our civil ways of life apon them. Its like the saying goes..."guns dont kill people, people kill people." Guns can be good if theyre in the right hands (the USA, cops, next level, ect.). My 2 cents.:D
PEACE!
tyler

[cpud]

Originally posted by Pureform
Humans separating themselvs into different religions and groups will be the cause of the end of humanity. Millions and millions of people have died because of their religions.... just in the last 100 years alone. :holy shit. Nukes arent the problem. Its humans lame-ass little differences about whos god is right or wrong. Thats why other countries hate us. Theyre jealous and pissed off that we accept all races and religions equally, and they dont want us to enforce our civil ways of life apon them. Its like the saying goes..."guns dont kill people, people kill people." Guns can be good if theyre in the right hands (the USA, cops, next level, ect.). My 2 cents.:D
PEACE!
tyler

w0rd :up :up :up couldn't have said it better myself.

[cpud]

Originally posted by NextLevel
I agree... but we gave him weapons, looked the other way when he gassed his own people and lets face it, we dont give a SHIT about them. We have supported countless BRUTAL regimes over the years, slaughtered MILLIONS of people (sometimes for politics) and have USED nuclear weapons! In fact... Bush Sr. is the ONLY person EVER convicted by a world court for crimes against humanity. How can anyone buy into this BULLSHIT about "liberating" these people. That is the most brainwashed ignorant thing I have ever heard.

By your standards... shouldnt we disarm? We spent 27 billion dollars last year on nukes:raging

criticizing the way Saddam Hussein 'governs' his people does NOT mean I defend every descision made by the United States.

Read my post a little more carefully next time :D

[Mantis Claw]

Originally posted by Pureform
Humans separating themselvs into different religions and groups will be the cause of the end of humanity. Millions and millions of people have died because of their religions.... just in the last 100 years alone. :holy shit. Nukes arent the problem. Its humans lame-ass little differences about whos god is right or wrong. Thats why other countries hate us. Theyre jealous and pissed off that we accept all races and religions equally, and they dont want us to enforce our civil ways of life apon them. Its like the saying goes..."guns dont kill people, people kill people." Guns can be good if theyre in the right hands (the USA, cops, next level, ect.). My 2 cents.:D
PEACE!
tyler

Not to offend, but you don't have any idea of what you are talking about. There are many other factors at play that are not in your equation.

[Mantis Claw]

Originally posted by cpud


criticizing the way Saddam Hussein 'governs' his people does NOT mean I defend every descision made by the United States.

Read my post a little more carefully next time :D

I read your post again, and you seem to be of the same calibre of reasoning that Tyler is exibiting, concerning this issue. All the factors and nuances of the situation are not being taken into account. The question should be asked, "why do nations go to war and who stands to benefit?".

[Pureform]

Originally posted by Mantis Claw


Not to offend, but you don't have any idea of what you are talking about. There are many other factors at play that are not in your equation.

No offence taken. yeah, i know there are MANY other factors.....i just didnt feel like submitting my 12,000 page UN document this morning.:D I do have an idea of what im talking about. Shit man, 6 million innocent jews DIED during WW2 because of their religion. did GNN tell you that was a conspiracy and never happened? :laughing

[Mantis Claw]

Originally posted by Pureform


No offence taken. yeah, i know there are MANY other factors.....i just didnt feel like submitting my 12,000 page UN document this morning.:D I do have an idea of what im talking about. Shit man, 6 million innocent jews DIED during WW2 because of their religion. did GNN tell you that was a conspiracy and never happened? :laughing

No, and gnn is hardley my only source of info concerning world politics and events. 6 million jews did not die simply becuase of their "religion". Once again, there is more to it than that. I agree that religion is divisive and controlling, but there are always alterior motives and agendas when it comes to calling for war and bloodshed.

[Preecha]

The Jews didn't die because they we're "religious" or beleived in their "Hebrew God". They we're killed because they were jewish and Hitler had a thing with them. Maybe because they owned a vast majority of the buisnesses? This among many other possibilities, but it was not because Hitler hated religious people groups.

Tyler if you really think that religion is the cause of wars you really need to find out what religion entails. Most beleif structures such as Islam/Christianity/Rastafarianism etc preach "PACIFICISM!". Now if you've heard or read about wars happening in the "so called" name of religion, then you have heard right. These "so called" beleivers !!!!!!!!!OBVIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!! didn't read their texts correctly when they decided to kill people(Crusades etc). If read about what these religions "truly" preach then you would know this. I suggest taking a world religion course and not take the word of the Pope as being the "authority" on whats going on with Christianity. Just some advise...

Lastly, I would think that if everyone was a Rasta/practicing Jew/Christian/Buddist there would be NO wars. Each of those beleifs would bump heads at some junctures, but they would never cross the boundaries of physical agression and war. But in the secular world, that many people's minds live in, would not allow that. Hence the wars in the name of God! So I would think these religions, if TRULY followed, would be the answer to war. Not the way you perceive it.

[Preecha]

BTW Jimi that hut is in the works ;)

[Flagrant]

Originally posted by Preecha
The Jews didn't die because they we're "religious" or beleived in their "Hebrew God". They we're killed because they were jewish and Hitler had a thing with them. Maybe because they owned a vast majority of the buisnesses? This among many other possibilities, but it was not because Hitler hated religious people groups.

Tyler if you really think that religion is the cause of wars you really need to find out what religion entails. Most beleif structures such as Islam/Christianity/Rastafarianism etc preach "PACIFICISM!". Now if you've heard or read about wars happening in the "so called" name of religion, then you have heard right. These "so called" beleivers !!!!!!!!!OBVIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!! didn't read their texts correctly when they decided to kill people(Crusades etc). If read about what these religions "truly" preach then you would know this. I suggest taking a world religion course and not take the word of the Pope as being the "authority" on whats going on with Christianity. Just some advise...


Lastly, I would think that if everyone was a Rasta/practicing Jew/Christian/Buddist there would be NO wars. Each of those beleifs would bump heads at some junctures, but they would never cross the boundaries of physical agression and war. But in the secular world, that many people's minds live in, would not allow that. Hence the wars in the name of God! So I would think these religions, TRULY followed, is the answer to war. Not the way you perceive it.


I hate to say it Preecha but pretty much everything you've said supports Tyler's point. The Jews were persecuted for being Jewish, no matter how you look at it. But I do disagree that all wars are caused by religion. Sadly though, most are.

[Preecha]

Religion "in and of it's self" didn't cause ANY of the wars. A true follower of these would see the problem with killing others, as their doctrines/beleifs would dictate a different path. Tyler is saying that the world would be a better place without religions. I disagree! I also disagree with the idea that religion is the cause of these wars. It's PEOPLEs evil wills that is the problem. Not the "do not kill" commands in most of them. If followed, there would be no trouble. If these ideas/commands of not killing are NOT followed you have people that can lay no claim to these beleifs. They are not true followers! So in the end religions that adhere to pasifism CAN NOT be the problem. Wouldn't that be a oxymoron!?

[Pureform]

Originally posted by Preecha
The Jews didn't die because they we're "religious" or beleived in their "Hebrew God". They we're killed because they were jewish and Hitler had a thing with them. Maybe because they owned a vast majority of the buisnesses? This among many other possibilities, but it was not because Hitler hated religious people groups.

Tyler if you really think that religion is the cause of wars you really need to find out what religion entails. Most beleif structures such as Islam/Christianity/Rastafarianism etc preach "PACIFICISM!". Now if you've heard or read about wars happening in the "so called" name of religion, then you have heard right. These "so called" beleivers !!!!!!!!!OBVIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!! didn't read their texts correctly when they decided to kill people(Crusades etc). If read about what these religions "truly" preach then you would know this. I suggest taking a world religion course and not take the word of the Pope as being the "authority" on whats going on with Christianity. Just some advise...

Lastly, I would think that if everyone was a Rasta/practicing Jew/Christian/Buddist there would be NO wars. Each of those beleifs would bump heads at some junctures, but they would never cross the boundaries of physical agression and war. But in the secular world, that many people's minds live in, would not allow that. Hence the wars in the name of God! So I would think these religions, TRULY followed, is the answer to war. Not the way you perceive it.

me take the word of the pope!!!!.............:laughing :laughing
im not catholic or any specific religion (unless drum & bass/junglism is a religion).:D im a human being who was put on this earth by some higher power that we cannot comprehend. all humans were put on this earth by the SAME higher power...to live happily and to treat each other with respect and kindness. and until the world realizes it...there will always be war. I dont agree with "war in the name of god", but there are ignorant dictators out there that still have primal savage war-hungry instincts that our ancient ancestors once had.

[Preecha]

Originally posted by Pureform
Humans separating themselvs into different religions and groups will be the cause of the end of humanity. Millions and millions of people have died because of their religions.... just in the last 100 years alone. :holy shit. Nukes arent the problem. Its humans lame-ass little differences about whos god is right or wrong.

No we do not agree Flagrant. The division of humanity, via religious differences, CANNOT be the end of humanity. TRUE followers will not war with each other. False peoples will! It is human error but its not about whos God is right and wrong thats causing problems. It's misguided and sometimes evil intent, in the name of something else(ie: their God), that causes these problems.

[Preecha]

No war is not caused by religious differences, but it is caused by stupid humans.

[Preecha]

Do you beleive the Crusades and the Inquisitions were caused by religion? Answer me that!

[Pureform]

Originally posted by Preecha
. Tyler is saying that the world would be a better place without religions.

whoops!;) i didnt mean to come across like that bruv. all im saying is that the world would be a better place if all religions could agree with each other. :D :monkey

[Preecha]

I totally agree with that. Being a Christian I think im on the right path, but I see others have different "ideas" on whats the right path. I'm not going to kill them or even fight them over it. Only show the little love and knowledge that I have...

[Pureform]

Originally posted by Preecha
No war is not caused by religious differences, but it is caused by stupid humans.

yeah, stupid humans who cant be kind and respect other religions/groups/races/sexes/ ect. And sadly there are too many of these stupid people leading countrys.:eek

[Pureform]

Originally posted by Preecha
I totally agree with that. Being a Christian I think im on the right path, but I see others have different "ideas" on whats the right path. I'm not going to kill them or even fight them over it. Only show the little love and knowledge that I have...

i think im on the right path too. i dont claim to be any specific religion (even though i was raised as a christian and a member of the church) . i like to keep an open mind about other religions and how different people across the world benefit from their own ways of spiritual enlightenment. EXAMPLE> i think its cool how buddist monks in china are so in touch with their mind, body, and spirit, that they can spend a night on a freezing mountain top in their underware without it phasing them, while the average person would have died from hypothermia. :ninja :eek
-tyler

[Mantis Claw]

Originally posted by Pureform


I dont agree with "war in the name of god", but there are ignorant dictators out there that still have primal savage war-hungry instincts that our ancient ancestors once had.

Like our president bush?

[kidicrus]

N. Korea knew exactly what it was doing when it pulled out of the no nukes treaty. It's all about the money they don't give a damn about war . See we were not doing much BIZNess with good old Korea and they got pissed so they decided to black mail us either pay up or blow up ! and what better time to do it thaN when we are getting ready to go to war with IRaq. One other thing, we are by far a super power we have a trillion billion dollar debt both nationally and internationally we only spend about 20% of our budget on military and strategies they rest is spent on entertainment and research we lend all kinds of money to countries who later on try to start sh@#$$ with us, Iraq is a good example how do you think the whole gulf war started. and the European Union has only been out a year and there money is already worth more than the U.S dollar sorry sweetheart we are not going to be a superpower much longer. I give it another ten years tops! P.S. China, Iraq, Russia and every other poor communist country or supposed former communist country spend 80% of thier budget on Military and they all hate us!

[kidicrus]

Being a fellow christian I just attended this seminar about the conflict in Iraq given by a Minister by the name of Hal Lindsay he basically broke it down as 4,000 years of hatred and he interpreted from the bible exactly what is going on right now he basically said that it stems from all this stuff to do with abraham given all his loot to Issac and sending all of his other 6 sons to the middle east w/o Sh&%$$$%^ if your interested read Eziekiel chapter35-39

[Preecha]

EURO Dollar > US Dollar

Buying stuff from German ebay ive seen that damn EURO jump up in value :(

[kidicrus]

My mom is a world coin dealer and very much into politics she has all these tapes about New world order conspiracy theories and all that . We watch silver gold and the euro very closely. If you ever have a chance to buy any old coins before the euro from any of the euro union countires snatch em up they will be worth alot very soon because most of them have already been melted down to make euros.

[Pureform]

Originally posted by Mantis Claw


Like our president bush?

no, like saddam.

Bush= good guy
Saddam= bad guy

get it?

Bush= police
Saddam= criminal

:D

[Mantis Claw]

Originally posted by Pureform


no, like saddam.

Bush= good guy
Saddam= bad guy

get it?

Bush= police
Saddam= criminal

:D

DON'T BE A FOOL!

Tyler..... Do little research on Bush becuase it is disgustingly obviously you lack critical knowlege about him and his family. They have your mind and your perceptions right were they want it. C'mon, look deeper than what they tell you. ;)

[Pureform]

Originally posted by Mantis Claw


DON'T BE A FOOL!

Tyler..... Do little research on Bush becuase it is disgustingly obviously you lack critical knowlege about him and his family. They have your mind and your perceptions right were they want it. C'mon, look deeper than what they tell you. ;)

I did some research on bush and heres what i came up with.....

bush= good
saddam= bad

Do some research on saddam and his family. saddam has your mind and perceptions right were he wants it. ;)


saddam wants us all dead. bush wants to protect us from saddam.
still dont like bush?? He wants the world to be free from terrorism! so yeah...i guess my mind and perceptions are right where bush wants it.:foff
you will never turn me against my own country....keep trying though, youre making a worthy effort.:rotfl

[Consumer]

I think I'm going to ban both of you from this bored until you make a commitment to at least talk in person and stop being so pissy with each other.

[DjMichael]

Disagreeing with the presidents motives dosnt make you un-american, isnt that what makes this country a good place to live?
The right to disagree, and make your own decisions on the subjects before you. If you look at the facts and there are many. All we have here is a group of people in power with a high interest in oil. The US being the largest consumer of oil, and Iraq being the second biggest producer, it dosnt take much math to come to the conclusion of Bushes motives. Iraq poses no immediate threat to anyone at this moment, even the world community agrees. Most countries do NOT support a war with Iraq, will this stop the US war machine?? Probably not, the most likely scenario is going to be a swift battle more losses than the Gulf war, more strained relationships with other countries, and finally the US will have control over more oil. Our dependency on Saudi Arabia will diminish and another puppet government will be set up for the US interest, sound familar (Afganistan)??

Its a sad but true state of affairs. Thats why there is no Good guy/Bad guy, sure Saddam isnt the greatest character out there. But Im sure there is a long list of many more people in control that are worse than him. What gives a nation of people the right to tell others how to govern their people? The world is a big grey area, wrong and right dont seem to find a place here anymore. Its easy to sit back and watch everything unfold on our TV screens, but wait until it really hits home. Extremist are created because of facing an extreme situation. When your home, your beliefs, your families and your resources are being attacked from some nation across the ocean you might want to strap a bomb to yourself and tell them you arnt going to take it anymore.


Until then, go about your daily lives and enjoy exsistence. There are bigger forces at work than you or I.



Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[Pureform]

Originally posted by DjMichael
If you look at the facts and there are many. All we have here is a group of people in power with a high interest in oil. The US being the largest consumer of oil, and Iraq being the second biggest producer, it dosnt take much math to come to the conclusion of Bushes motives.
i thought we only get 10% of our oil from the mid east?

Thats why there is no Good guy/Bad guy, sure Saddam isnt the greatest character out there.
...yeah he's only killed how many million people?

[NextLevel]

In all fairness... the us has killed 60 million since WWII.


Also...Religion "in and of it's self" didn't cause ANY of the wars

while this is technically true, it is the same as the argument that " guns dont kill people. People kill people." while that is also technically true, it is also a rather silly argument.


peace

[ana]

Originally posted by Preecha
The Jews didn't die because they we're "religious" or beleived in their "Hebrew God". They we're killed because they were jewish and Hitler had a thing with them. Maybe because they owned a vast majority of the buisnesses? This among many other possibilities, but it was not because Hitler hated religious people groups.


all of you: read "mein kampf" and then tell me why hitler killed the jews.

[Preecha]

I prolly wont read that ana, so plz give us the run down :D

[Preecha]

Originally posted by NextLevel
In all fairness... the us has killed 60 million since WWII.


Also...

while this is technically true, it is the same as the argument that " guns dont kill people. People kill people." while that is also technically true, it is also a rather silly argument.


peace

No way as guns are MADE to kill people. Religion is meant to SAVE people. So it's TOTALLY different when people are using guns and "religion" to kill people. The proper use of a gun is to kill and the proper use of religion is enlightenment. So no that doesnt work bro ;)

[NextLevel]

the defense rests.....:crackhead

[Preecha]

hehe

[DjMichael]

Taken from: http://www.globalpolicy.org



http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm

Iraq has the world’s second largest proven oil reserves. According to oil industry experts, new exploration will probably raise Iraq’s reserves to 2-300 billion barrels of high-grade crude, extraordinarily cheap to produce, leading to a gold-rush of profits for international oil firms in a post-Saddam setting. The four giant firms located in the US and the UK have been keen to get back into Iraq, from which they were excluded with the nationalization of 1972. They face companies from France, Russia, China, Japan and elsewhere, who already have major concessions. But in a post-war military governments, imposed by Washington, the US-UK companies expect to overcome their rivals and gain the most lucrative oil deals that will be worth hundreds of billions, even trillions of dollars in profits in the coming decades.






Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[Pureform]

Originally posted by DjMichael


Iraq has the world’s second largest proven oil reserves.

:laughing yeah i know. Did you know our very own Alaska has the LARGEST oil reserves in the world. this "war" isnt really about oil. If this was a war for oil, wouldnt we be fighting the tree-huggers that wont let us drill in alaska?

[Dub-U-Eff]

Originally posted by DjMichael
But in a post-war military governments, imposed by Washington, the US-UK companies expect to overcome their rivals and gain the most lucrative oil deals that will be worth hundreds of billions, even trillions of dollars in profits in the coming decades.






Kind Regards
Michael - DTS "YEAH!!!!" Capitalism owns!!!....................I guess?....?

[DjMichael]

Originally posted by Pureform


:laughing yeah i know. Did you know our very own Alaska has the LARGEST oil reserves in the world. this "war" isnt really about oil. If this was a war for oil, wouldnt we be fighting the tree-huggers that wont let us drill in alaska?



Taken from: www.thegloballist.com


"It is a well-known fact that Saudi Arabia has the largest proven oil reserves of any country — with 264 billion barrels."



I know Alaska is definately an untapped source, but thats how we play the game. Take everything from everyone else FIRST, then when natural resources have been depleted have control over the remaining oil resources. Thats probably why the US dosnt really harvest as much crude oil as we have accesss to.


Anyways, Im sure you know Im just having a discussion. Not trying to change the way you think. There is no point in that, people NEED to think for themselves. But dont overlook the obvious, even the mainstream media is admitting these things with out coming out and saying it.




Kind Regards
Michael - DTS

[Mantis Claw]

Originally posted by Pureform


:laughing yeah i know. Did you know our very own Alaska has the LARGEST oil reserves in the world. this "war" isnt really about oil. If this was a war for oil, wouldnt we be fighting the tree-huggers that wont let us drill in alaska?

you just don't know, you really don't know...

[Dub-U-Eff]

Originally posted by Pureform


:laughing yeah i know. Did you know our very own Alaska has the LARGEST oil reserves in the world. this "war" isnt really about oil. If this was a war for oil, wouldnt we be fighting the tree-huggers that wont let us drill in alaska? wow...which radio station you been listening to?

[NextLevel]

people NEED to think for themselves

yes but they need to THINK!!!!!

This war is about a legacy, About politics, about oil and about who has the biggest cock. What the war is NOT about is liberating anyone. And I'm sorry, if you think otherwise.......you need to broaden your sources of information that you use to form your opinions because you are gullible, ignorant and brainwashed.