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Chronicamelion
12-27-2002, 05:12 PM
HOLLYWOOD, Fla. (Dec. 27) - Ushering in either a brave new world or a spectacular hoax, a company linked to a religious sect that believes in space aliens announced Friday that it has produced the world's first cloned baby.

A healthy 7-pound girl, nicknamed Eve by scientists, was delivered by Caesarean section Thursday somewhere outside the United States, said Brigitte Boisselier, chief executive of Clonaid. Boisselier said the girl is an exact genetic copy of the American woman who gave birth to her.

At a news conference, Boisselier offered no scientific proof, provided no photographs and did not produce the mother or child. She said proof - in the form of DNA testing by independent experts - will be available in perhaps eight or nine days.

''You can still go back to your office and treat me as a fraud,'' she told reporters. ''You have one week to do that.''

Cloning experts were skeptical or reserved judgment on the announcement, which is certain to touch off fierce ethical, religious and scientific debate. In Washington, the Food and Drug Administration said the agency will investigate whether the experiments violated U.S. law.

The United States has no specific law against human cloning. But the FDA contends that its regulations forbid human cloning without prior agency permission. And the agency has no intention of giving the OK.

''The very attempt to clone a human being is evil,'' said Stanley M. Hauerwas, a professor of theological ethics at Duke University. ''That the allegedly cloned child is to be called Eve confirms the god-like stature these people so desperately seek.''

Boisselier would not say where Clonaid has been carrying out its experiments and did not identify any of the scientists involved.

She described the mother as a 31-year-old with an infertile husband. The couple has decided not to face the media now, she said.

She said four other couples are expected to give birth to Clonaid-created clones by early February.

Clonaid was founded in the Bahamas in 1997 by Claude Vorilhon, a former French journalist and leader of a sect called the Raelians. Vorilhon, who calls himself Rael, claims a space alien visiting him in 1973 revealed that extraterrestrials had created all life on Earth through genetic engineering.

Boisselier, who claims two chemistry degrees and previously was marketing director for a chemical company in France, identifies herself as a Raelian ''bishop'' and said Clonaid retains philosophical but not economic links to the Raelians. Rael is ''my spiritual leader,'' Boisselier said.

''I do believe we've been created by scientists,'' she said. ''And I'm grateful to them for my life.''

She said neither the infertile couple nor the four other couples are Raelians. The other couples are a pair of lesbians from Northern Europe; two couples from North America and Asia who seek to clone dead children from cells taken before their deaths; and a second Asian couple, she said.

Twenty more women are scheduled to be implanted with cloned embryos, she said. So far, 10 women have been implanted; five had miscarriages in the first three weeks, and the other five led to ''Eve'' and the four current pregnancies.

No couple has paid for the cloning effort, but some of the first five couples invested in Clonaid and became business partners, she said. She said she does not know how much Clonaid will charge once it begins to offer the service commercially.

To gain convincing proof that ''Eve'' is a clone, Boisselier said she accepted an offer by former ABC News science editor Michael Guillen. Guillen, now a free-lance journalist who said he has no connection to Clonaid, said he has chosen ''world-class, independent experts'' whom he did not identify to draw DNA samples from the mother and the newborn and test them for a match.

Guillen, who said he is not taking any money for his efforts, said he hopes to release the results and make the experts available to reporters within a week to 10 days.

To do the cloning that led to ''Eve,'' scientists removed the nucleus from an egg of the woman and merged the altered egg with a skin cell from her, Boisselier said. The DNA from the mother's skin cell took over direction of the egg.

''The baby is very healthy,'' Boisselier said. ''The parents are happy. I hope that you remember them when you talk about this baby - not like a monster, like some results of something that is disgusting.''

Boisselier said she had received thousands of requests for cloning from couples over the past three years. In addition, ''I have been receiving many death threats,'' she said.

The notion of human cloning is controversial, both because of an apparent risk to a baby - cloned animals have shown a host of abnormalities - and because of other ethical considerations.

Boisselier contends that defects seen in cloned animals will not necessarily appear in humans. And she defended efforts to clone people.

''If my science is giving babies to parents who have been dying to get one with their own genes, is my science worse than the one preparing bombs to kill people?'' she asked. ''I am creating life.''

Legislation or guidelines to ban human cloning are pending in dozens of nations, including the United States. Several countries, including Britain, Israel, Japan and Germany, already have banned it.

At the White House, a spokeswoman noted that Presidents Bush supports a ban on human cloning. Regarding Boisselier's announcement, Claire Buchan said that ''despite widespread skepticism from scientists and medical professionals, it does underscore the need for Congress to act.''

The Vatican, which holds that life begins at conception, had no immediate comment but has condemned cloning in the past because extra embryos are destroyed in the process. The 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention condemned Boisselier's announcement.

''There is a global race going on by rogue scientists who are operating outside the mainstream,'' said Richard Land, head of the Southern Baptists' public policy arm. ''If you allow cloning at all, some people will try to reproduce them with predictably horrific results.''

Nathan Diament, policy director for the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, said he was concerned that religious and political leaders would overreact to Friday's announcement. The group opposes cloning for human reproduction but supports using the technology to develop lifesaving medical therapies.

Scientists said they looked forward to the promised proof.

''We'll wait and see, I guess. I'm still a skeptic and I'm hoping that it's not true,'' said University of Georgia cloning expert Steve Stice.

Mark Westhusin of Texas A&M University, who made headlines in February by cloning a cat, said if Boisselier's announcement is true, ''I think they are taking a big risk in terms of health hazards to the child.''

The American Society of Reproductive Medicine said in a statment: ''We must be sure that clonal pregnancy is first possible and second safe in humans. Thus far, we don't have evidence for either. Based on the current state of knowledge, we do not believe taking a clonal pregnancy to term would be possible in humans.''

In Rome, fertility doctor Severino Antinori, who said weeks ago that a cloned baby boy would be born in January through a separate effort, dismissed Clonaid's claims and said the group has no scientific credibility.

AP-NY-12-27-02 1622EST

Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

Personally....I think this is just gross and very disturbing. I'm not even for animal cloning. I hate the face that scientists are trying to play "God". :raging

cpud
12-27-2002, 06:42 PM
Fuck all that Frankenstein bullshit.. those 'Doctors' are toying with life!

Preecha
12-27-2002, 06:48 PM
I agree :ninja

shabda
12-27-2002, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Chronicamelion


Personally....I think this is just gross and very disturbing. I'm not even for animal cloning. I hate the face that scientists are trying to play "God". :raging

Well then is not a woman giving birth to a baby CREATING? therefore "PLAYING GOD" as you say?

And I hope you dont eat KFC! Because then you are in some trouble...

NextLevel
12-27-2002, 07:32 PM
I personally think she is full of shit. It is possible but why not show at least SOME evidence?

evilAntics
12-27-2002, 09:49 PM
I believe its illegal to clone a human, thats probably why she is in hiding.

Also it shouldnt have been done. We dont know what the effects of cloning can really do.. This child could have some new virus or genetic flaw that if it reproduces some day, it might spread and do damage to humanity you know. Theres many reasons why one should never clone a person, yeah its really interesting, but could have severe consiquences(typo) to the rest of us.

NextLevel
12-27-2002, 09:57 PM
it might spread and do damage to humanity you know.

actually that might be the best thing that could happen:D


maybe it will destroy humanity:devil :domokun :crazy :nanametal

clay
12-27-2002, 10:02 PM
How about a clone of Anjelina Jolie?:rolleyes

NextLevel
12-27-2002, 10:03 PM
I'll take three:monkey

Chronicamelion
12-27-2002, 11:50 PM
pPPPPPPPPPBTTT....Make that five Billy Zanes to go plz.

Well then is not a woman giving birth to a baby CREATING? therefore "PLAYING GOD" as you say?

Woman and a man create the baby with a penis and pussy. The sperm swims to the egg, fights his way in, and the process of life begins!


And what's that got to do wit chicken? I love chicken!

Mestizo125
12-28-2002, 11:57 AM
come on you think this is the first time they've done this...

<RAW>
12-29-2002, 11:17 PM
Thats the last thing humans should be doing.

jlines
12-30-2002, 10:29 PM
i dont believe they really did it either, has anyone read the background on the CULT that is saying they did this. The Raelian cult, they're nuts. They think they are aliens. Yes, Yes, that woman is damn terrible looking (her teeth give me night terrors). But i'd draw the line at her being an alien.

Although i do believe there will be real clones by the end of 03.

Dub-U-Eff
12-31-2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by NextLevel


actually that might be the best thing that could happen:D


maybe it will destroy humanity:devil :domokun :crazy :nanametal Werd 'em up!!!

Polytrickster
12-31-2002, 01:21 PM
It will be interesting to see if they can 'create' a living, breathing, thinking human. I don't know if I believe the story about a human clone successfully being born. I need to see a little more proof than some religious leader telling me 'Yes, our inexperienced company has done it!"

If they do create a living, breathing, thinking human, I believe we may see the value of human life go down. Governments cloning men for war, testing, etc.

If it turns out to be an impossibility, we may simply encounter brain 'dead' shells for souls (never truely alive in the sense of consciousness). And it may be a good way for us to grow organs for sick people.

Is the question here whether cloning is right or wrong?

NextLevel
12-31-2002, 01:32 PM
we may simply encounter brain 'dead' shells for souls (never truely alive in the sense of consciousness).


I'm pretty sure they already have. Walk around ASU and youll run into plenty of em:D

Polytrickster
12-31-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by NextLevel



I'm pretty sure they already have. Walk around ASU and youll run into plenty of em:D

Aaaahahahahaahhahahahaaa!

Calbha
01-07-2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Chronicamelion


Personally....I think this is just gross and very disturbing. I'm not even for animal cloning. I hate the face that scientists are trying to play "God". :raging

...as for playing God. When is it okay to play God as a doctor as in removing a tumor that would kill someone. Then you can also get into Kavorkian....is what hes doing playing God? What about abortion? hell firefighters saving a life?! that would be considered playing God....I personally think its way to grey of a area to declare right or wrong. As for cloning men for war whos to say they wont have the same memories as the original and hence belive they are the real one....just because there a clone does this mean they wont feel the pain of a bullet enterting in them or they wont feel the sadness of knowing they wont ever see the people they remeber they loved as thier dieing??

Janus
01-07-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Calbha


...as for playing God. When is it okay to play God as a doctor as in removing a tumor that would kill someone. Then you can also get into Kavorkian....is what hes doing playing God? What about abortion? hell firefighters saving a life?! that would be considered playing God....I personally think its way to grey of a area to declare right or wrong. As for cloning men for war whos to say they wont have the same memories as the original and hence belive they are the real one....just because there a clone does this mean they wont feel the pain of a bullet enterting in them or they wont feel the sadness of knowing they wont ever see the people they remeber they loved as thier dieing??

No

The phrase 'playing god' just comes from the biblical reference of god creating people. In that sense, creation is reserved for god. God gave people dominion over the land, animal, etc... therefore medicine etc wouldn't fall under the same lines.

Calbha
01-07-2003, 03:52 PM
im not saying i belive what i posted im just giving the other side to the argument....playing the devils advocate i guess

Janus
01-07-2003, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Calbha
im not saying i belive what i posted

Nor am I

Calbha
01-07-2003, 03:56 PM
hehe you dont belive what i posted? isn't that what you posted in the first place? :P

NextLevel
01-07-2003, 03:58 PM
The phrase 'playing god' just comes from the biblical reference of god creating people. In that sense, creation is reserved for god. God gave people dominion over the land, animal, etc... therefore medicine etc wouldn't fall under the same lines.

I respectfully disagree.... If we are going by the Bible... God is also responsible for death. This means the time and manner also, so I would say that keeping people alive longer than their " natural" life span is playing god as much as ending it sooner is.

Janus
01-07-2003, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by NextLevel


I respectfully disagree.... If we are going by the Bible... God is also responsible for death. This means the time and manner also, so I would say that keeping people alive longer than their " natural" life span is playing god as much as ending it sooner is.

hehehehehehehehe

That assumes that god doesn't work through people... it also assumes that people can overcome god's will

Dub-U-Eff
01-07-2003, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Janus


... it also assumes that people can overcome god's will Explain "god's will" please....

Janus
01-07-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Dub-U-Eff
Explain "god's will" please....

hehehehe.... d00000d's

i'm not here to debate the existence of god and/or the limitation of god's power. The phrase "playing god" in regards to cloning is predicated on an existence of a god. I was just pointing out that the examples that calbha mentioned weren't the same as cloning.

However, my interpretation of "god's will" would only be equally presumptuous of the interpretation that doctor's saving a sick patient would intervene in god's plan/will/whatever that next level was speaking about

NextLevel
01-07-2003, 04:44 PM
:eek :eek :eek :holy shit :holy shit :holy shit god damn this is a pointless circular arguement!!!!!!!!!!!:crackhead :kitty :domokun :crazy :monkey :cute :alert :daeth :nanametal :moon :love :banana :raging :rinse :metal :bandit :ninja :reload :rotfl :subc :fu :beer :bounce :snore :foff :devil :down :up :crying :slayer :confused :p :king :eek :mad :rolleyes :D :o :( :) ;)

Polytrickster
01-08-2003, 12:25 AM
The idea of "God's Will" is a paradox. You have to be able to comprehend freedom of choice existing together with a predestined future...Biblically speaking.

To say God is responsible for everything ignores freedom of choice and the work of outside forces. But freedom of choice and outside forces slightly takes away from the idea of God being all knowing, having a plan that cannot be deviated from or from a predestined future.

Hmm... something to think about....but not for too long. :D

Calbha
01-10-2003, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by NextLevel
:eek :eek :eek :holy shit :holy shit :holy shit god damn this is a pointless circular arguement!!!!!!!!!!!:crackhead :kitty :domokun :crazy :monkey :cute :alert :daeth :nanametal :moon :love :banana :raging :rinse :metal :bandit :ninja :reload :rotfl :subc :fu :beer :bounce :snore :foff :devil :down :up :crying :slayer :confused :p :king :eek :mad :rolleyes :D :o :( :) ;)

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D

Xaria
01-13-2003, 04:59 AM
Well, what ever beliefs the ethics/anti-ethics of cloning disturb, I just think, it is whack that in this overpopulated overproblemicated planet there are people out there who want a replica of themselves walking this earth. It is fucking bixzarre! I am so confused that there are people out there who literally want to be their own best friend and shit. That would be creepy. :eek You see how it goes though... wars (domestic and political) have destroyed unimaginable, unfathomable numbers of unique individuals, but its all good now cause we can just do a little shaking and baking and voodoo science to conjure up sci-fi style zombies in replacement. I don't know how it goes though... I think it is strange that we are concievably on the verge of marketing our evolution. "Genetic alterations for your babies! So they can be as perfect and beautiful as you. And best yet if you call the number on the screen right now you can get your dream baby for free...cause it is new and exciting and we have just upgraded. Our services now (for a limited time only) can be offered to your family and your farm animals!" You have to be an alien who is really a crazy cultist to pull this shit off before the American government unseperates it's trust in God from the state to whoop your ass cause it must violate something.

please excuse the ranting.

And then...duh duh duh...the medical wonders...the miracles of modern day science... we can clone organs for the clone instead of salvaging the original person's insides that are strewn on the side of the road 'cause this person is a immortality yearning idiot who is on the ultimate ego trip. Whoa ...that was really uncalled for....but the point that wasn't made is that our genetic predispositions...if that is what they are calling "flaws" these days...could totally change to the demand. Instead of survival of the fittest... it will be mass production of the desireable. Bringing a whole new level of discrimination to the table. Widening the gap between what was made real by nature, and what was made real by man. But really, I don't see it as making a new life, they are trying to mimick one. Man kind doesn't have no special frankenstein yet, all we have are rumors of a twin who is also a daughter to her twin, who is no freak of nature, but a freak of human curiousity. Sounds like the ultimate episode of Jerry Springer.

Life...all too often wasted. Cloned life...a material waste, and quite a condundrum if you ask me.

It will probably never come to all of this but it is shocking to be stirred by the possibility of men on mars errr...I mean cloned human beings...if they have a being...?:confused Well anyway WWwelcome to the present! I hope you enjoy your stay. :foff

Calbha
01-13-2003, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Xaria
Well, what ever beliefs the ethics/anti-ethics of cloning disturb, I just think, it is whack that in this overpopulated overproblemicated planet there are people out there who want a replica of themselves walking this earth. It is fucking bixzarre! I am so confused that there are people out there who literally want to be their own best friend and shit. That would be creepy. :eek You see how it goes though... wars (domestic and political) have destroyed unimaginable, unfathomable numbers of unique individuals, but its all good now cause we can just do a little shaking and baking and voodoo science to conjure up sci-fi style zombies in replacement. I don't know how it goes though... I think it is strange that we are concievably on the verge of marketing our evolution. "Genetic alterations for your babies! So they can be as perfect and beautiful as you. And best yet if you call the number on the screen right now you can get your dream baby for free...cause it is new and exciting and we have just upgraded. Our services now (for a limited time only) can be offered to your family and your farm animals!" You have to be an alien who is really a crazy cultist to pull this shit off before the American government unseperates it's trust in God from the state to whoop your ass cause it must violate something.

please excuse the ranting.

And then...duh duh duh...the medical wonders...the miracles of modern day science... we can clone organs for the clone instead of salvaging the original person's insides that are strewn on the side of the road 'cause this person is a immortality yearning idiot who is on the ultimate ego trip. Whoa ...that was really uncalled for....but the point that wasn't made is that our genetic predispositions...if that is what they are calling "flaws" these days...could totally change to the demand. Instead of survival of the fittest... it will be mass production of the desireable. Bringing a whole new level of discrimination to the table. Widening the gap between what was made real by nature, and what was made real by man. But really, I don't see it as making a new life, they are trying to mimick one. Man kind doesn't have no special frankenstein yet, all we have are rumors of a twin who is also a daughter to her twin, who is no freak of nature, but a freak of human curiousity. Sounds like the ultimate episode of Jerry Springer.

Life...all too often wasted. Cloned life...a material waste, and quite a condundrum if you ask me.

It will probably never come to all of this but it is shocking to be stirred by the possibility of men on mars errr...I mean cloned human beings...if they have a being...?:confused Well anyway WWwelcome to the present! I hope you enjoy your stay. :foff

Wow that is incredibly insiteful as well as hysterical and yes the idea of some people i know having another one of them walking around does scare the hell outta me...a replica of Bin Laden, Saddum Hussain, George Bush :eek :crying thats some scary shit man