I thought I was the only one...

[X-Gote]

Who disliked XML:

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?XmlSucks

Ive been demoralizing XML hype from day 1. Thats right im "old school" suckas! Amen to comma delimited relational data! Nothing beats it, not even with a stick.

Now for the anticipated replies for this post : "Yeah I don't even know what XML is", "programming sucks, I can just buy xml and put my name on it", "wow this is some geek shit.. HAHAHA!", "kekekeke XML!"

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

I like ripterm!

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

http://asia.cnet.com/downloads/pc/swinfo/0,39000587,20079376s,00.htm

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

http://www.cs.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/

[Consumer]

XML bashing? What's the point?

Yes, the hype is bad and the marketingspeak about it is out of control - but that doesn't mean its not useful.

BTW, I'm curious to see how/why you manage relational constraints within a single csv file.

[Castor]

Originally posted by deepfreq


BTW, I'm curious to see how/why you manage relational constraints within a single csv file.

Yeah, smart guy, how do you do that stuff?

[X-Gote]

Originally posted by deepfreq
XML bashing? What's the point?

Yes, the hype is bad and the marketingspeak about it is out of control - but that doesn't mean its not useful.

BTW, I'm curious to see how/why you manage relational constraints within a single csv file.

Bashing, no just dislike the hype and over glorification. Its usefull for syndicating small bits of information. CSV? you stick it in a database and then use it :rotfl

It would take me 2 seconds to write a parser for this format of data for a database:


// this takes up about 1/2 or less space than XML.

@@Table: Customers
@@Columns: CustID, title, locationID, balance, notes
512,"IBM",36,2406.34,""
883,"Johson Movers",572,0,"47A compliant"
Etc....
@@Table: Invoices
@@Columns: CustRef?, InvDate?, Total, Tax
423,"12/14/2003",3500,854.17
822,"03/01/2002",1476.34,322.05
Etc....


or 0 seconds because there are a million projects out there that can import and export with no problems (ie: phpmyadmin).

There isn't even a standard way to handle whitespace or newlines in XML... I could go on.

[Consumer]

Have you even used xml-rpc or wddx?

[Preecha]

?????????????????????????????? :D

[Castor]

Originally posted by X-Gote


There isn't even a standard way to handle whitespace or newlines in XML... I could go on.

Yeah see jason.... no standard way! :rinse

[X-Gote]

Originally posted by deepfreq
Have you even used xml-rpc or wddx?

wddx is cool but again there are better things for handling XML then what you could with a solid, fast, efficiant and proven solution (like a database). Im sure its appropriate for some situtation but in a practical, real world application, I wouldn't choose it especially if it was something I was going to host at work. I would have to compile it into php, then recompile apache or load it dynamically, in any case the latter would be a pain in the ass and it bloats your server processes. When I develop anything, I consider efficiantcy first, comprehensibility second and last, but still very important, will someone else ever be in the possition where they have to read my code and fix something in the event that I am unavailable (or dead heh). I have developed quite a few applications in my day for the web, I have considered using wddx at one point, but the trade offs in effeciantcy overall didn't pay off on my production server at work. Dynamically loaded wddx module ate CPU, compiled wddx ate too much memory (consider that you run it on a production server with over 100 virtual domains.. httpd processes galore!), something that would could just serialize() or exportvars() worked just as well for me. If I require more features then those 2 functions provide me, I use a database.

XML-RPC?
HTTP supports error codes

HTTP supports GET semantics

HTTP supports different resources (Categories, Channels)

with URLs

HTTP is an applications protocol!

HTTP is a very evolved system

GET is known to not modify state : cachability

Caching proxies don't work with xml-rpc (good bye scalability).

Again, im sure its cool to use, it looks like fun. I feel there are better things that accomplish the same task better (httpd ain't too shabby in my opinion), faster and definatelly handle the same thing more securely. I see xml-rpc like using a chainsaw to butter your bread instead of a butter knife and you are more at risk to cut a limb off.

[acid1]

X-gote you never cease to amaze me at your infamous ability to complete bypass the language paradigms and still remain a geek, you must have the biggest case of nerd blue balls in the world

[X-Gote]

Originally posted by acid1
X-gote you never cease to amaze me at your infamous ability to complete bypass the language paradigms and still remain a geek, you must have the biggest case of nerd blue balls in the world

Am I really that notorious? I really don't understand what you mean about not conforming to language standards? I work a shit job doing boring shit work all day and I find try to find the best shitty way to accommodate a clients budget at the same time keeping the companies needs in mind (keeping code clean for the other developers to manage, lean, simple.) and so far XML hasn't been the messiah technology to deliver the requirements needed that something else couldn't provide me as a better solution or enhance my dream job as a web developer.

Can you break down the paradigms I am ignoring? Im not being sarcastic, im serious. What other times have you been less then amazed? From my knowledge, this is the first time I may have bypassed some fundamental logic that I use every day to determine if I will use XML to store relational information rather then a database (ok that was a little sarcastic).

[acid1]

I'm just talking about how all our talks have been about scripting... ie kims house and on the net

Paradigms we still need to talk about ... such as:
Procedural
Declarative
Object Orientated
Applicative

...start researching...

twas just joking around any hoo

acid1 :rinse

[Consumer]

Polymorphism is teh geigh!

[jlines]

x-gote, yer crazy, XML is like a warm blanket. my car even runs on XML- ....hype....pshh

[X-Gote]

Originally posted by acid1
I'm just talking about how all our talks have been about scripting... ie kims house and on the net

Paradigms we still need to talk about ... such as:
Procedural
Declarative
Object Orientated
Applicative

...start researching...

twas just joking around any hoo

acid1 :rinse

Sorry I jumped the gun you buddy :( . PHP can be OO but there is certianly the right tool for the right job. I look forward to our conversion about paradigms :D

[X-Gote]

Originally posted by jlines
x-gote, yer crazy, XML is like a warm blanket. my car even runs on XML- ....hype....pshh

how has XML kept you warm at night?

[X-Gote]

Not much as changed since the lastt reply (april 2003) other then I don't care to volunteer information then nerd flex battle..

AND!!

The best of both worlds now exists: RELATIONAL XML.. http://www.research.att.com/~mff/files/final.html

Example Query:

WHERE <article>
<author>
<firstname> $f </> // firstname $f
<lastname> $l </> // lastname $l
</>
</> CONTENT_AS $a IN "www.a.b.c/bib.xml",

<book year=$y>
<author>
<firstname> $f </> // join on same firstname $f
<lastname> $l </> // join on same lastname $l
</>
</> IN "www.a.b.c/bib.xml",
y > 1995
CONSTRUCT <article> $a </>


hehe, funky looking.

No need for towels... WITH THIS DRY NERD IRONY! :laughing :confused

[Consumer]

XML is just a wrapper... I doubt you're working on any sites that would see a performance penalty on the user end from employing it.

[X-Gote]

If you walked a block in my shoes, you would come to a different conclusion. If a document standard facilitates whatever the hell your doing (IE: pot recipes, matlock fan fic and conspiracy theories), im sure it works just great :p

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

whats with this matlock facination?

[cpud]

Originally posted by Dj_Access
whats with this matlock facination?

thats what happens when you get old kim. :p

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

HAY NOW!!!!!!!!!! not 30 yet.... 4 more weeks.... :0

[the bassarchist]

I prefer Brainfuck.

http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/

They don't call it Brainfuck for nothin =)

+++>+++++<
[>>>+>+<<<<-]>>>>[<<<<+>>>>-]<
[<<
[>>>+>+<<<<-]>>>>[<<<<+>>>>-]<
[<<+>>-]
<-]


o fuck yah. :crazy