Israel and the Palestinians

[Preecha]

Will this ever end? I dont think so. There has been way too much fighting for a peace agreement where they both live in harmony. Its a sad state of affairs.

[Consumer]

shit's fucked.

(that the only conclusion I keep coming to with that situation)

[Polytrickster]

Shit's Fucked.....

[craig]

yeah that sounds about right

[Katie/007]

It's so sad b/c three different religions came from there but now that can't get along. Weird. My boyfriend is from Iran and he was showing me his passport and it says he can't enter Isreal or whatever. Fuck that!! And why the fuck are we planning on attacking Iraq? I really don't see how that is going to be effective but then again I don't know that much about the situation. Either way- war is not the answer.

uh- I'm all flustered now:crying

[CLOKWIZE]

"Sometimes peace can only be found on the other side of war."
-Unknown

[dTa]

there is a reason why Iraq is caught up in it... but there is so much going on that it would take me hours to type it all out........ so yea, i agree with deepfreq...... plain and simple..... shits fucked

[MaRy~JaNe]

Yeah the shit is most definitely fucked. I don't think it will ever end:crying

[jlines]

and it just keeps getting worse.....
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAADJANN4D.html

http://www.globalsecurity.org



:down

[Mantis Claw]

Gords of Ash... much worse

[<RAW>]

killin fields.............

[Mantis Claw]

Coming to a city near you...

[mS. ThAnG]

All I know is Iraq is not looking too good right now. The world is pretty fucked right now and many(political leaders) will have to make a decision on what side they want to be on, and that is pretty serious. Only time will tell when all this will end.

[f3/\r teh Phorced Access]

Armageddon is upon us....

West nile virus, hiv, fucked up economy....

Im buying 2 shotguns and all the water I can store up!



heheheh

[nikalodeeun]

Originally posted by Dj_Access
Im buying 2 shotguns and all the water I can store up!


definitely... learning to shoot a gun is a good idea right about now.
palestineans and jews have been fighting since time began, and they'll never stop. sometimes war is necessary for peace. i say we bomb the fuck out of saddam and all his butt sniffing buddies and tap the oil we got in alaska. :up

[nikalodeeun]

Originally posted by Katie/007
And why the fuck are we planning on attacking Iraq? I really don't see how that is going to be effective but then again I don't know that much about the situation. Either way- war is not the answer.


how can you make that conclusion without knowing any of the facts?
at this point, it's either us or them, and quite frankly i wouldn't wanna be them right now.


see what happens when you go out shooting?....bwahahaha!!!
:rinse :domokun :reload

[rawbee]

HA.


fools.

[Mantis Claw]

CHECK IT, Palestinians and Jews have not been fighting since the begining of time. It started when the Palestinian's home was invaded and occupied. Sadaam was put in power with the help of our gov. and remains there because of our gov. He serves the purpose of being the bully of the region, therefore giving the U.S. an excuse to be all up in the middle east. I hate to be the one bringing this up over and over, but there is much that is not known or understood about what is really going on right now.
Better start learning how to grow food.

[Polytrickster]

Yikes! Watch out for disinformation! If you want the truth stop being simpathizers to either cause and find out the facts. All sides have done fucked up things to each other. And like it or not this is not a political war. This is a religous war. And yep you guessed it! The fundemental religions associated with this mess? Christianity, Judaism and Islam. AKA USA, Judaism and surrounding Arab countries, respectively.

This mess began after the start of Islam. Not in the 1960's. The 7 Day War was just one of many ongoing battles where the tables have constantly been turning. The 60's is simply where Judaism got the upper hand in a time when anti-semitism has been at its peak with the help of world wide media.

[shabda]

all these young people knowing about shit that happened before they were born, what great insight you all have. I wonder how opinionated and misinformed we must all be...

[Polytrickster]

It's called being educated.

[Katie/007]

I know I don't know that much about situations going on around the world- doesn't mean I can't put my two cents in. Inform me, don't just tell me I am making a conclusion. Anyway- I just think it is fucked up how we are going to attack Iraq and we fear all the weapons they have, when we gave them the weapons in the first place years ago so Iraq could attack Iran and what not. CraZy, karma came right back to the US. Our govt. should have known years ago that all those weapons would cause more harm than good- they are fucking WEAPONS!! I don't want to see the day when Bio-terrorism and nuclear bombs hit our country but I also don't want to see our troops fighting and innocent people being killed. I think we are just living in a craZy time now. Maybe everything goes in cycles. Asia was once the most powerful "nation" in the world. And then before christ was even born the Arabs were the most powerful (btw- using slavery even worse than the US did) Then parts of Europe were the most powerful, now it's the US. 500 years from now do you really see US still being the most powerful??? That's if the damn earth doesn't melt or blow up.

:lighter

[nikalodeeun]

reading all this bullshit really made me feel good about joining the reserves.

[Xaria]

"You can not simotaneously prevent and prepare for war." Albert Einstein
All I want to know is why nobody knows a damn thing that is going on in the deeper currents of the USA's political stream.
Politics???
Shit, I am just a kid with a voter registration card and a brain that is strung-out trying to decipher the political code of honor. Wait, that's right there is no honor, no glory, just ugly social struggles. Complaints and faded hippy philosophy aren't going to acheive world peace. Neither are attacks, neither are weapons of mass destruction. Unfortunatly the documents that proclaim human rights aren't able to ensure that they are preserved. All these things do is give us the power to take action. The question is wether or not there is any action that can breech through the shells of hatred people have been raised in. War isn't a friendly soccer scrimage, it is an extremely competitive game with passionate lives stake. No matter the rules or equipment, countries will strive to seat themselves in the throne with the most comfort. Is that wrong? It is a natural and just aspiration for leaders to try raising the standards of living for their followers. It is such a damned shame that we have to go about it in such brutal ways and hold grudges against individuals within the whole for a collective population's actions. The fan is hit with shit when the leader is no longer striving to better the stance of his people but trying to reach some sort of ultimate power-trip using and abusing others to fulfill their evil plots of taking over the world. I am by no means defending the instigators of ruthless destruction, nor justifying war, I just think the only direction we can step forth to search for a solution is by reaching towards understanding.
'Reach for the stars and you might make it to the moon.' er...someshit:eek
PLUR!

[jlines]

well put

[nikalodeeun]

Originally posted by Xaria

PLUR!

bwahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:laughing

[squared]

What a world! What a world! (http://www.sub-conscious.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1208)

[Mantis Claw]

The struggle for control of that region, to my understanding, has always been between christians & muslims. For what it's worth, this is what has been portrayed to me in my "education".
How is it that this is purely a religious war when palestinians are fighting for land and their sovereign statehood. How can you not sympathize with the palestinians when an outside group of people (U.N.), in effect, came in and told them this is no longer their home. None of this justifies the horrific acts that have been done by the palestinians in their struggle for justice, but the fuel for the fire is being provided in abundance. If you truely look at what is happening over there, you will see pure irony. Isreal has become the oppressor, rising out of the world sympathy of their own past oppression.

[Polytrickster]

How is it that this is purely a religious war when palestinians are fighting for land and their sovereign statehood

Yeah, Holy Land. And actually. The U.N. gave each their own state. Israel and Palestine. But because of "Palestinian" "hatred" for the Jews and their complete opposition to an Israeli state they along with surrounding arab countries lined up armies on Israel's borders proclaiming their intent to destroy Israel. At that time the Israelis demolished Egyptian airfields lined with poised figthers and took out everyone else within 7 days. They expanded their "borders" as people have done for hundreds of years to add a perimeter of pertection in the case of furture attacks. Note that these same nations declared they would NOT STOP UNTIL ISRAEL WAS DESTROYED. Now you can see the reason for paranoia.

How can you not sympathize with the palestinians....
That's easy. I couldn't possibly justify in my mind feelings that make it exceptable to kill someone for any reason. And understand that I don't sypathize with the Israelis either. I empathize with both of them when it comes to the loss of their innocent loved ones. But I don't agree with at all is the destruction of the State of Israel. The "Palestinians" don't even recognize Israel as a sovreign state. And they've also been RE-OFFERED a state of their own MANY TIMES. That's not good enough for them.

None of this justifies the horrific acts that have been done by the palestinians in their struggle for justice, but the fuel for the fire is being provided in abundance.
Nothing......absolutely nothing justifies the killing of inncoent people. And that is ALL that suicied bombers do. Kill innocent people. Both sides are bringing these things upon themselves.

[Mantis Claw]

Was not Palistine already a state before the U.N. gave statehood to the jews? If so, could it not be expected that they would hate the people who where taking over a huge chunk of their homeland?

[Danielle V]

actually, its not like this was the palestinain homeland for centuries. I believe it was a relatively new state before being forced to give it up to the Isrealites. And you must remember, this is after 6 million jews were killed at the hands of the nazis. You would think after the first million or 2 someone would intervine and try to stop them, but no country really put themselves out over it. So the Allied forces kinda thought they owed it to them. Not that I was there or anything.

the bottom line is: you are basically stuck between a rock and a hard place. no one can be pleased.

Muslim and Jews kinda have been at war since the beginning of time. "call me ishmal".... you know the whole half-brother thing where this old guy was told by an angel that he was going to have a baby, but his wife was old as hell too and they didnt think they could. so then the wife gets this young servant woman to be with her husband and he does have a baby with her. but then the old woman gets pregnant and they kick the first baby and the young mom out.
(thats my edd-u-macation, for ya.... I apolygize in advance for those who know the story well, I mean no disrespect.)

You cant help but feel sorry for the Middle East. This was probably the most advance civilization at one time. They made major advances in philosophy, astronomy, architecture, literature, and mathematics (they invented algebra, dammit).
many fractions of Muslims dynasties during this time (the middle ages) promoted intergrated civilizations. Kingdoms like the Ummayads actually had Jews and Christians in high governmental positions. But cultural harmonies aside, civil wars and Christians from western Europe hoping to "reclaim" something tore apart that region. Advancement gave way to survival. In a way, i dont think they've ever gotten over that.
Many of them feel their situation is desparate. Desparation can be very dangerous.

I could never judge the actions of either of these regions as completely wrong or completely justified. I sympathize, but more: I'm just glad i dont live there and I am philipino.
Everyone loves philipinos.
-d

[shabda]

Originally posted by Polytrickster
It's called being educated.

Its more like taking what you hear and labeling it truth... I think the only ones who really know the deal are the palestinians and the jews. So dont front like you know, when you live in arizona and watch too much tv!:foff

[CLOKWIZE]

Shit's fucked.


-WIZE

[mS. ThAnG]

How is Isreal asking for sympathy. I'm sorry a 15 year old girl going into a supermarket and blowing herself up killing innocent people and many others who are willing to do the same thing for Jihad. No, Isreal and U.S along with the United Nation are doing what they have to do and could do a lot more. Osama's head on a steak in NY's Central Park would have worked for me. I had two friends that escaped from the WT and it was hell trying to get a hold of them for 2 days. Not to mention flying into JFK seeing a huge hole and surrounding buildings looking like a war zone in NY financial district. Sorry but I'm not trying to watch or be in a plane crashing into a building or bridge or poisened by biological weapons. I have no sympathy for the middle east's government.

[nikalodeeun]

Originally posted by mS. ThAnG
How is Isreal asking for sympathy.


ok, i know i said i wasn't going to post anymore, but that has got to be the most ignorant thing i've seen on here since emile.

first off, I'M JEWISH!!! just wanted that to be clear. i don't hate arabs. my boyfriend is from syria. i have friends who are also arab.

second, jews have been the most persecuted people throughout history (that's fact, you can't argue that; i.e. egypt, WWII)

third, if you lived there, you'd know israel wasn't askin for shit!!! i have family that live there and friends that live there, i know someone who died in wtc in nyc and i know someone who died in a suicide bombing in israel. those people's relatives want nothing more than for all of it to stop. they dont want revenge, they don't want pity, all they want is peace. but sometimes, war is necessary for peace.

last, in hebrew there is a saying: "He who wants to kill you, wake up earlier than him and kill him.":rinse :snore

that's my two cents, and i'm not posting anymore.

[Marco]

First you say this:

those people's relatives want nothing more than for all of it to stop. they dont want revenge, they don't want pity, all they want is peace

and then this:
He who wants to kill you, wake up earlier than him and kill him.

Which is why this shit has lasted for so many years and will probably continue long after were gone. The cycle never ends. "An Eye for an Eye" Leaves the Whole World Blind -- Mahatma Gandhi

[hardcore junkie]

looks like somone is stereotyping all middle easterners together.i used to live in tel-aviv in the early 80's and just because one guy(osama) who is muslim didnt like the usa (seeming we stick our nose in everyones business) no need to classify all middle east people as one. my father worked for the UN in lebanon while we lived in israel. truthfully this stuff will never end it goes back to the bible. you wouldnt understand until you have seen the hate first hand.

sorry i have to cut it short i totaled my car & can only type with one hand.


dave

[Polytrickster]

Originally posted by shabda


Its more like taking what you hear and labeling it truth... I think the only ones who really know the deal are the palestinians and the jews. So dont front like you know, when you live in arizona and watch too much tv!:foff

Dumbass... :foff

[mS. ThAnG]

For your information Nikowhatever, I was asking how is Isreal asking for sympathy, referring to Mantis' post and forgot to put a question mark after that sentence like a dumbass. I also have Arab and Jewish and for that matter, every color of the rainbow and class as friends too, so chill on the defenses. As for your ignorant like Emile comment....PLLLLLEEEEEEEEEAAAASE OK! You only know Emile through a fuckin message board so calling him ignorant is pretty stupid to me. As a matter of fact he was born in Iraq if I'm not mistaken not that, that has to do with anything but I am entitled to my opinion little one. So sorry to see you go.

[kubenzi_boy]

this is the worst debate on the subject ive ever seen .


the jews and the chinese are two of the oldest peoples in the histiory of man,going back some 4000 to 5000 years.india as well.
the chinese have more than a billion people.india as well.

there are currently around twelve million jews.

what happened?

well,the chinese kept china.india kept india.the jews were overun and spread out across the globe.

jews made up 10% of the roman empire at one time,so,even if they hadnt kept there homeland there should be over 200,000,000 jews today.

this isnt the case.when a people lose their land,they become very much a minority.when they are spread out they become even more of a minority.this ,and only this,is what lead to thier humiliation and holocaust in the 1940's.
obviously,a minority is weak,and can be taken advantage of much like the others that hitler found in need of extermination i.e gays,gypsies etc.

now here we are in the year 2002.we have groups to protect everything from animals to trees.but not people?

the arab world is over 500 times the jewish world.on the average map,i can cover israel with my thumb,the arab world takes a few hands.
BUT,somehow israel is this giant occupying this poor underdog palestine

how is it that we arent concerned about developing the jewish people? the arab world has over 200 million arabs.and they need MORE land?
apparently.and they need it from a people who dont know if they will have room for their people 50 years from now even if they keep the territories they have.
this IS the holy land.the keepers of holy lands shouldnt shit in churches
Obviously you havent been paying attention the Oslo Process.
Significant concessions to the Palestinians?

Let's see. 20% of the west bank and 75% of Gaza is known as zone A... zone A = full Palestinian political AND military control. That's effectively sovereign except during incursions.

The majority of the West Bank that is NOT zone A is zone B... which is Palestinian political control, and Israeli military control.

Under this agreement, 99% of the Palestinian population in the territories is under Palestinian political control, and at least half or more is under military control as well.

Not to mention Israel was ready to give 95% of the West Bank and ALL of Gaza at the Camp David talks which, mind you, were sabotaged by the PLO, not by Israel (which was at the time begging for a settlement of any kind)

Also the PLO IS anarchy. There is no law in the territories aside from the effective requirement to fight Israel. Those who object are thrown in jail, beaten or killed. Aside from that, nothing is enforced. Almost the entire Palestinian population has a gun now... some of the guns were given by Israel (which armed the Palestinian "police forces" which are now battling them) and the remainder were smuggled in (largely by the Russian mafia operating within Israel). Blood libels abound. Crime goes unpunished. All resources are directed towards killing Israelis at this point (or enriching Arafat). Europe, the US, and Israel have all given billions of dollars to the PLO, most of which has ended up in the hands of Arafat and his cronies. The money never gets to the Palestinian street, which is why the Palestinians are just as destitute as ever, if not more. There is no rule of law, likewise. Dismantling the PLO really wouldnt change anything aside from the fact that it would mean the destruction of an organization whose soal goal is the destruction of Israel, a goal that has never changed since it was founded in 1964, THREE YEARS BEFORE THERE WERE ANY OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.

Study the history of the Oslo process. It is a history of constant betrayals by the Palestinians, grudging concessions by the Israelis, and a total degradation of the situation into all-out war.

Giving more money and support to the PLO is just about the most fucking retarded thing anyone could do right now. They deserve to be destroyed (the PLO and fatah, not the palestinians).

also please remember that the state department has quoted arafat REPEATEDLY saying"any [arab] who wishes to make peace and goes against the intifada,(I) will give him ten bullets in the chest".when was the last time sharon threatened to kill his own people?

Originally posted by Polytrickster


Dumbass... :foff

I second that.


:foff

[hamptaro commando]

the reason we are in iraq ass is because the wont let UN inspectors check out there weapons factories.... hmm i wonder why. that bastard wouldnt happen to be planning on launch horrible chemical weapons at us like hes been promising to do.
and as far as palastine and isreal there all just to proud and arrogant to let all this bullshit go. somebody needs to role up in there and bitchslap all of them.:fu :rinse :reload

[hamptaro commando]

:fuhttp://invader.acid.net/gir/gif_dancinggir.gif

[mS. ThAnG]

How the fuck am I classifying all middle easterns? Whatever, I don't have sympathy for their governments not people. Good for you living in Tel Aviv, thats the last place I would want to ever be and its a shame because that part of the world is beautiful from what I've heard. Look, these problems are affecting the world anyway you look at it and that's very scary. I don't care what the U.S, Isreal or the U.N wants to do because the message was sent loud and clear on Sept. 11 w/ all the highjackers being from Saudi Arabia that Jihad is now here and fuck that because I'm American and I have nothing to do with that shit and I want to live in my country in peace. My father moved from his country to escape terrorism and I don't want to be doing the same one day. We need to go over there and kick the shit out of Saddam and the Arab world needs to understand that the game of chess is over.

[abacus]

Originally posted by Mantis Claw
The struggle for control of that region, to my understanding, has always been between christians & muslims. For what it's worth, this is what has been portrayed to me in my "education".
How is it that this is purely a religious war when palestinians are fighting for land and their sovereign statehood. How can you not sympathize with the palestinians when an outside group of people (U.N.), in effect, came in and told them this is no longer their home. None of this justifies the horrific acts that have been done by the palestinians in their struggle for justice, but the fuel for the fire is being provided in abundance. If you truely look at what is happening over there, you will see pure irony. Isreal has become the oppressor, rising out of the world sympathy of their own past oppression.

I got to agree with what you say. But I have jewish friends with whom I can understand their pov also. It is extremely annoying that one of my friends is constantly obsessed with the situation. He told me that if I decided to go to king tut (which is arab owned), he would cease being friends with me. this is the kind of attitude that just continues the hatred.

[nikalodeeun]

Originally posted by mS. ThAnG
How the fuck am I classifying all middle easterns? Whatever, I don't have sympathy for their governments not people. Good for you living in Tel Aviv, thats the last place I would want to ever be and its a shame because that part of the world is beautiful from what I've heard. Look, these problems are affecting the world anyway you look at it and that's very scary. I don't care what the U.S, Isreal or the U.N wants to do because the message was sent loud and clear on Sept. 11 w/ all the highjackers being from Saudi Arabia that Jihad is now here and fuck that because I'm American and I have nothing to do with that shit and I want to live in my country in peace. My father moved from his country to escape terrorism and I don't want to be doing the same one day. We need to go over there and kick the shit out of Saddam and the Arab world needs to understand that the game of chess is over.

finally i agree with u on something.....:slayer

[kubenzi_boy]

here is a good timeline on the matter.it's also written by a news organization who isnt trying to sell you a new product.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2001/israel_and_palestinians/timeline/1897.stm



one more fact:when we invaded IRAQ in 91,they were sending scuds into israel due to the fact they wont reach our soil and wont be able to for a decade at least.

[hamptaro commando]

please dont think im generalizeing but the majority of that region is out of control. its a hornets nest that is now stinging everyone in the world. its so widespread and out of control i feel that the only thing to do is to seize that whole area. the fanatics over there are jumpin up and down every time some of "there land" is being used by people they dont agree with. which is pretty much everyone who doesnt agree w/ them. its outragous. they cant even make a stable society in the huge country they already have.

http://invader.acid.net/gir/gif_girdressing.gif